The genocide is only one of many negative things the Night Elves have suffered though, you’d also have to give up Mulgore and Thunder bluff permanently and another zone such as the Barrens. You’ll also be forced to watch an the Alliance leader that did all this get their own expansions, cinematics and a redemption / justification for the genocide. They’ll also be abandoned by Mu’sha and be obliterated in the maw
This is what Night Elf screentime consists of, the destruction of everything they once had and losing everything. Learning that your goddess is not exclusive to you and that she doesn’t care about your people at all, thus just let them be obliterated in the maw.
It will also include some retcons like the whisps that were once part of the story.
The NE do appear to be a bit of a Mary Sue race, in my eyes. No amount of meaningless genocide will change the fact that they are the immortal (albeit, not anymore), perpetually young, perpetually beautiful race that is also “”“savage”"", but not ugly-savage, the kind of savage you want to be. Their lore is expansive and their trademark god is confirmed to be the only (so far) “real” god in Warcraft. whatever that means.
The Tauren’s religion in comparison just comes off as “wrong”. Musha’s or the Earthmother’s existance has never been validated on the same level as Elune.
He’s not. That’s a Night Elf myth. He is a Wild God.
Overall it is somewhat strange. On the one hand Night Elves are really getting a lot more lore than most races and Elune is elevated far beyond anything on Azeroth. It can be off putting.
On the other hand Night Elves also have gotten their culture destroyed, became something like dolls and are a plagued with “hush Tyrande” moments.
I really can see the op’s frustration and point though. It is quite strange how Shadowlands basically ruined most / all myths aside from Elune.
I can also agree that Anshee could be used more in context with the Tauren, or at least that she would get more fleshed out lore.
Not only night elves got their culture destroyed. OP is playing one too.
People are so concerned about nelves being defanged that they didn’t notice that same thing happened to Tauren. With Tauren additionally being sidelined, being reduced to side-kick most of the time with no narrative purpose that would put them starting an initiative. AND they’re portrayed as damsel in distress/ morality pet for the past recent years.
The Tauren culture itself didn’t turn into something worse (or different) though. Their culture is still in tact. It could use more attention and love though.
I agree there is a problem in the way Tauren are used in the story. It’s quite sad to watch them ignored, side lined and frankly threaded badly. Then there is Baine as a representation of his people. The problem here is: Baine is one of the worst characters in the game.
Making Tauren into naive, rolling over and letting anyone stomp them target dummy’s was a terrible mistake.
Nelven culture is still mostly intact. Moon worship, sentinels, wardens, druids, heck they still have the same leadership even.
I’m just saying that both were defanged.
It’s really not intact in my view. At least it never was since WoW.
I also didn’t disagree with you and I didn’t mean to say Tauren “have it better”, or anything like that.
Yes, the Tauren have currently a lot of problems.
I don’t think so. Mu’sha could still be explained as the eye of the Earthmother. Druids can use the moons power just like the suns because of its place in nature. It’s not as if the Tauren have ever had any other connection to the moon or its divinity through Elune. I think the story goes that the Earthmother expelled that part of her or something. That could have created the moon and Elune chose to use that moon. Both faiths can be true.
He is Elune’s son. His daughter is named Lunara, after her grandmother. Elune raised up Ysera because she took care of her child. I don’t know how much Chronicle expands in it but Knack gave an interview to blizzplanet and confirmed this very fact.
Even the Tauren have an in-game story about The White Stage and the Moon and in Ardenweald I believe Ysera see’s Cenarius and he’s titled her adopted son.
OK … I know this is going to get me some flak, but the moment the WoTA content came out NE “savagery” never made any real sense. As due to their history and origins after that point, the best that would make sense is “Savage by Highborne standards”. With many of the military tactics the NEs adopting being a direct response of who those tactics were developed to combat. There was no cultural, environmental, or historical impetus that would explain a “savage” NE beyond that Highborne standard thanks to that content.
Not to mention, the “defanged” and removal of that WC3 “savage” nature seems to only come up in discussions about why its unreasonable that the NEs alone (or with their accessories the Worgen and Draenei) should not be portrayed as more powerful than the entire Horde combined into perpetuity (or at least the Kali Horde).
Knaacks words means literally noting on this matter. He was never an authority, or in any way in charge of WoW’s lore. Newer lore overwrites older one too.
Lunara can be her one case, sure. Cenarius however is in Chronicle listed and mentioned as a Wild God. Sure there is the weird case of loa like Zanza and why they should be seen as Wild Gods. There is that.
Why would you get flagg for this? I often stated before that exactly those books destroyed the Night Elven culture. I don’t disagree with you at all on this. I simply really hate the changes they made, exactly in those novels and later on in WoW.
You never saw me argue it in such a way for example. Some people use the WC3 faction system (and perhaps other things) to make such a point sure. I wouldn’t say that’s what everyone is talking about in this context. For me it’s really how their society was changed. Let’s just say the modern version became less unique for me. That sums it up.
That’s clearly relevant unless by mother you don’t mean anything like a mother. Someone who neither related to their creation or raising. You specifically reference her as a possible creator of the titans.
Again, Elune doesn’t just use that moon. That moon is what Night Elves consider Elune. That’s not the in-universe lore.
Just here to point out why non-nelf fans see nelves so overwhelmingly blessed by comparison.
Those three zones you mentioned? That’s all the “tauren zones”, with the Barrens being more “all of the Kalimdor Horde zones”. Night elves lost Teldrassil and temporarily Darkshore and Ashenvale, but still kept their hold on Hyjal and Feralas, had the majority influence in Moonglade, lore ties to Azshara (the zone) and more. Contrast that with… Mulgore and, for the sake of the argument, the Barrens and Thousand Needles. We got night elf lore or content in half of the expansions to date, whether large or small, compared to two expansions that touched on races related to the tauren without touching the tauren themselves.
I’m not saying the night elves didn’t get shafted in BfA. They absolutely did. But they have had a good, long run before BfA while fans of other races have begged for scraps and got mechagnomes or taunka.
On the matter of whether Elune is literally the moon or “something … much … bigger,” isn’t this just another example of the writers not all sticking to the same script and sometimes retconning each other?
Abridged version: The history of the Night Elves is not considered good or even long by individual Night Elf players (to be specified procent).
Long version: not that the history of the night elves before BFA was good or seen as pleasant. There was a lot of it. In some cases (Ardenweald!) It is seen as the story of the night elves, but players may perceive the story differently. The same Illidan. Or the living legacy of the Highborne, the Nightborne. Or druids, the infinitely neutral content of the night elves. Other common complaints.
What do you mean by “good”? Quality (albeit sad), enjoyable (albeit poorly done), or “the night elves got more than they lost”? It would be necessary to clarify the timing, otherwise it will be like with Darkshore, “You won! No, we grieved for two years, we will grieve in the future.”
Quantity. Quality is subjective, but quantity is pretty objective, and quantity has greatly favored the night elves of all the playable races.
If you want to debate quality, have at it. But it’s undeniable that more night elf “stuff” has been included than other races. They might be second only to humans, with orcs coming up as a close third, followed further back by trolls, but beyond that? It’s scraps.
You all talk about all the neutral content as a bad thing. As a primarily Horde player, if we’re just going for quality, then I’ll take neutral over globally antagonistic. Most orc or troll development the past ten years has been everyone fighting orcs or everyone fighting trolls. Even gnome content usually has us fighting other gnomes (or gnome predecessors/throwbacks) with bits of lore squeezed in, and goblin content is the punchline of some bad joke. I could keep going on, but the picture is painted there.
Once more, yes BfA sucked for night elf fans. It sucks you’re still in limbo until some book clarifies the status of your territories. Nobody’s denying that.
The OP has been pretty much consistently wrong in what they’ve presented as support for their argument, but they’re essentially correct. The tauren have been given pretty much short shrift, and I suspect that unlike most of the other Horde races, they’ve never had a strong advocate within Blizzard itself.
What’s needed mostly now is some material with Baine that doesn’t reference Anduin and establishes him as a leader that should be taken seriously.
When the Sunwalker came out there was some NPC dialogue that gave expression to some discontent that tauren druids had with the Night Elf fixation on the moon, night, and their idea of night elf forests as being THE perfect expression of nature. These themes could do with a bit more exploration. In fact all of the Horde races that sponsor druids, clerics, and Paladins should have their thematic differences given a bit more depth. (Not so much BE Paladins, you guys have Liadrin and have been done to death almost as much as the Human variety.)
And what sucks is that he’s so unlikely to get it.
Like, we’re in the land of the Dead for gods sake, and he’s the main rep of the most Spirit Worshipping PC race in the game. Especially with just how much his own powerlessness and weakness had been thrust into his face so repeatedly in the SLs intro. Which is a VERY classic motivator for self reflection and growth in storytelling. But, its almost more likely that he will instead just be forced to sit around pining for Anduin. Which, with that aforementioned treatment (that could again be used for personal growth), it reveals what Baine truly is.
He is a PET of a writer’s pet in Anduin. He is not a pet of a writer himself. Which is why, with every patch, it seems like more and more of his value exclusively comes from his relationship with Anduin.