If you listen to his game dialogue in both WC3 and in Wrath of the Lich King, If you’ve read the Arthas novel, you would understand that Arthas had full agency over his actions since upon his wakeup, He had eliminated both the specter of Ner’zhul and his residual humanity from his mind.
Arthas wasn’t required to do what he did to Sylvannas. He did it because he was personally pissed off that she and her forces put up such a prolonged fight and he personally wanted her to suffer in as many ways as he could dream up. He even kept her body around on the off chance that he’d dream up some more.
The man had full agency and the seeds of his personality as the Lich King were there even as a young lad and show in his irresponsible handling of his steed, Invincible.
Even after taking up the blade Arthas is referred to as the Lich King’s lieutennant, not his sock puppet. He even asks questions of Kel-thuzad starting with asking him if he was angry about him being killed by him while Arthas was still a paladin.
Except that is not what we learned and has never been the case. She had free will and what did she do with it? Stab Garithos(yes he very much deserved to be punished, but not by Sylvanas) in the back even though he held up his end of the bargain.
I assumed the conversation was about the Ardenweald cinematic. I’ve avoided the raid cinematic until I’ve done the raid, so I have no opinions about the latter.
Addressing OP’s request directly, as a Loyalist I am all for Alliance and Horde players to have an alternative ‘Unforgiven’ path of quests that they can do where they either do not directly participate in the story or even act to undermine it.
My only caveat is that it have exactly as much impact on the overall story as it did for we Loyalists - which is to say, none.
People were already supposing that Sylvanas could be controlled and were already hating that option. Stop trying to pretend that you wouldn’t be crying about it if she would have done all that without her freemind. People would still be here crying about Sylvanas being redeem and about how crap story writing it is.
Because that would go against everything she supposely stood for. She kept saying for years the forsaken/her are “free” and retroactively saying saying she wasnt seems like a weak attempt at a redemption arch people do not want for her.
As mentioned by other, plenty of undead suffer as worse/if not worse then her but none of them turn to genocide.
So you do admit that the reason that people hate her redemption and not the Bolvar one isn’t because of the how but because of the who. Thank for admitting that people would still hate to see the redemption of Sylvanas even if it was the same as bolvar…
Just be honest, you hate her and just wanted her dead, that all.
I want her dead for what she did and how she did it. If Bolvar had done what she did in the manner and circumstance she did it, I would hate Bolvar. Don’t forget, Sylvanas was also once Alliance(lorewise).
Sylvanas had the choice not to make her first interaction with the Alliance one of betrayal. She didnt.
BUt Bolvar did what she’s done by asking us to genocide the red dragonflight. But would Sylvanas got the same redemption as Bolvar, you would still call it bs and would hat it.
Once again you don’t hate how Sylvanas is redeemed, you just hate that a character that you hate didn’t get killed.
Bolvar was being influenced by the helm. Sylvanas made her CHOICE. No it is not the same. If the dragonflight/dragon fans wants justice on Bolvar that is their business. Personally I want justice for what Sylvanas has done toward the Alliance.
Learn to read for god dam sake. I keep telling you that people didn’t like the idea of Sylvanas being ‘‘controlled’’ and you keep on going that people hate it because she wasn’t.
If you aren’t ready do discuss the fact that you would still hate it even if she wouldn’t have her freemind then you have nothing more to bring or argue with my point.
You are asking about my opinion about a character that isnt the Sylvanas. If Sylvanas was from the start always presented as someone being control, if she didnt spout her hypocritcal believe she and the Forsaken had free will everytime they did something awful again, I would have a different opinion of her.
As it is you cant compare her to Arthas or Bolvar because unlike those two, they were being influenced by outside forces. Hence why I am willing to give them some slack. In a hypothetical scenario where Sylvanas from the start of Warcraft 3 was always presented as a slave while doing everything she did I might actually pity her more. But she is not that character.
She has full agency in her actions. As much as she tried to play mindgames with Anduin she actually had several choices she could have made differently.
Seems more like a reality bro. And more importantly true to her character. Unless you want to admit that the Sylvanas we have dealt with over the last 20 years had no agency of her own and all her accomplishment were not really her own. Because that seems like a bad cop out.
If from the start of Warcraft 3 she was presented as a slave to Zovaal(or someone) who had no agency of her own I might not have hate her. As it is, that is not the Sylvanas we have now.
She was always villanous from Warcraft 3. She could have choosen to fufill her agreement with Garithos and leave in peace. She didnt and her very first action being free was to backstab someone.
Maybe, but until we actually get the epilogue/figure out what happens to Sylvanas at the end of all this we wont really know.
Maybe Blizzard will find a way to punish her for what she did during her unlive while giving her a relatively graceful exit(a la Garrosh) or maybe they wont. We literally cant do anything but wait.
Omg the irony here is just insane. On one sentence you do admit that Sylvanas working for the Jailer is a retcon but on the other sentence you would hate a long time retcon and that Sylvanas wasn’t retcon…
You are just denying everything that made her not villain and refuse any retcon that make her less villain while focus sing only to what make her a villain while happily accept every retcon that make her more villain…
And you still want to argue that you aren’t just biased by the fact that you just hated her before and will hate her no matter what.
She had done plenty of villanous things long before Zovaal was ever a thing. If anything the addition of Zovaal is simply an explaination of why she did those thing(at least starting Wrath onward). And Zovaal is not a retcon per say anymore then new lore is considered a retcon.
And again, if she was different character and didnt act the way she did in Warcraft 3/was told from Warcraft 3 she was just a puppet I probably hated her no more then I would hate say the rest of the mindless Scourge. But she isnt mindless and she was not under anyone’s control when she did the things she did.