Yeah, you changed! Before you were just a “yes-man” and now you are finally being independant by syaing “nonono!” 
I admit i bit forgot how the events played, but i wanted to say that Turalyon would not any of the 2 anyway but Xe’ra wanted to do something to punish Alleria.
Sense of humour! Love it 
I forgot to put my reverse smiley for you to make no mistakes in cases you would take me seriously! (i pout it now)
But glad you understood it was sarcastic. I would not want to beo n your bad side! 
If you’re goihg to do Robin Williams do it right… It should be Nono… Nono.
I was not thinking of Robin Williams, but more about the guy in the 5th Eelements “nononono!” 
It’s not far fetched but it’s still not canon.
Furthermore, as I mentioned, it does not ‘choose’. See my comments on ‘How does light magic work’ in the post above.
I can, because it was a Naaru, not the light. As previously stated, they are not identical.
The existence of a realm doesn’t proof sentience.
Spirit healers exist in the lore. Their original story (before SL-Retcon) can be found in Chronicle Vol. 1 on page 57. If it were just for gameplay, they probably wouldn’t have bothered to replace them on Argus.
Interestingly, Xe’ra claims that she is only ‘one’ of the first Naaru. (Q: In the House of Light and Shadow) Prime Naaru may also be an elder term. Personally, I believe that Naaru society is not strictly hierarchical because it shouldn’t be nessesarcy for them. At least that was my impression during TBC. Of course, you could still be correct. But perhaps you’re mistaken. It’s a possible theory, but presenting your interpretation as a fact is wrong.
We don’t have enough information.
The quoted part of my post referred to healing through shadow magic.
I meant the guy who casts the light when I said ‘wielder’. The paladin, the priest, etc. In your example, it would be Xe’ra. Of course, you can ‘infuse’ people with light against their will (healing spells, damage spells, lightforging), but this does not imply that they can cast it themselves.
Strawman + false equivalence.
I’m discussing rhetorical norms and communication flow, while you equate that to an ethical stance on minorities, which is a separate issue. In other words: you’re misinterpreting my argument in bad faith.
A quick research tells me that it’s a former major world religion. I still don’t have the interest or time to read up on it, but I strongly suspect that a world religion contains a little ‘more’ than that.
Looking at your ‘therefore’: I also don’t believe that all dualism is manichaeism.
This would be very binary thinking.
In my opinion, however, it is also very ‘manichstic’, to use your terminology, to assume that moral greyness or ambiguity is always good in storytelling and moral absolutes are always bad. Some stories become great because of the one (Game of Thrones, Witcher), while others are distinguished by their moral simplicity (Star Wars, LoTR, much of the horror genre). Skilled authors understand how to combine both in spheres.
Personally, I believe that greyness works best with characters because it makes them more believable, and absoluteness with supernatural powers because it adds to their mythos and increases immersion. A clear distinction between good and evil is also refreshing, particularly in a heroic saga if we’re talking about escapism.
Futhermore: If I retcon something that was meant to be absolute (light/shadow - literally white and black) into something morally grey, I create a slew of inconsistencies.
tl;dr: yes, i actually like zombies, demons, Sauron, pennywise, etc being evil. very dull 
Xe’ra is a poorly written character who is inconsistent with previous lore, and Danuser’s lore is worse than fanfiction.
How old is your source by the way? Because to me, everything can change about what you so strongly use as your source.
Because if they had placed one on Argus, then guess what, people would have asked questions!!! Because people are incapable of drawing line between gameplay and lore most of the time.
And well, you asked me to answer the question “why spirit healer on argus” while you know there was no spirit healer there…what you trying to do? Trick me?
To me, the book “ennemy infiltration” telles me that its how they work because the titans are working in hierarchy (Aman’thul as the High Father and leader) :
"Similar to the titans, the naaru and their keepers are singular in purpose. Their adherence to a linear path is an obvious shortcoming.
They savor nothing more than being proved right, so if they believe they have converted one of us to their precious Light, they will trust that agent implicitly."
I am very confused about that one, if you can infuse an UD with the Light, maybe it become a Lightbound Undead?
Who decide that? Who decided that the rethorical norm was what you said? Give any statement that says so.
Thats not the point, you are beside the point here, the term i use was indead a rleigion AT FRIST, but it evolved to become a word with a deinfition which is : religious OR philosophical dualism.
Simple as that, its not because you dont know a word or term, that you have to be like “ho i dont know what this is, but it sound like wrong” like really, took me 2sec to google definition…because yes words can have more than one definitions!
Well, thats how you describ what you told me, when you said you want Light to be positive and dark magic to be eivl, this view sound very binary to me.
But it is, because its not deep enough when “bad is bad and good is good” you just cant tell me that its “deep” lol. And because its not deep, therefore too simple then its “bad” because its too simple.
Here is why the moral absolute is bad, because its tirering to see white being good abd black being bad.
And so on that, we can agree to disagree, because, no one in real life, is just evil to be evil, thats why the “moral absolute” or the “evil being evil because its evil” is too simple and dumb.
You mentooned Star Wars, but Star Wars have actually people being evil for a reason, like Darth Vader, if you think he is the greatest villain of the cinema just because he is evil then you wrong, he is deeper than this and its why people like him.
And its where i will say that, if you played games such a DnD you would know that, not all demons are pure evil, not all angels are purely good. And demons that are actual cool motvations and would even team up with the goodies are lot more interesting than the “hahaha i am evil” ones…
Even Diablo in its story managed to show that the world is not just dual, because in Diablo, even angels are big jerks who want to destroy humanity.
What do you mean exactly? Bridenbrad?
If by ‘everything can change’ you essentially mean retcons: Yes.
I don’t see any description of a hierarchical system. If you read ‘linear path’, it may seem obvious, but I believe it refers to their way of thinking from the perspective of a dreadlord.
I have to point out that this is SL lore and a significant retcon because it involves the Nathrezim. If we take Danusers Lore as a starting point, and assume that it is not simply ‘fake news’ on the part of the Dreadlords, but rather a poor attempt to add nuances to the story, and that the story will hypothetically continue in this direction, it’s indeed not far fetched to come to this conclusion.
However, unlike you, I don’t consider the old lore ‘outdated’. The new lore is imo merely inconsistent with the previous worldbuilding, and the writers have thus done an bad job.
I rather think the undead will turn to ash.
But theoretically, there are also lore monstrosities like Calia or those undead in the new dungeon in hallowfall.
Don’t be infantile pls.
Please don’t just address the claims, but also the reasons.
thank you
In the end, a character like Xe’ra demonstrates that moving away from absolutes has resulted in a worse and more inconsistent story, if you consider the Naaru to be some sort of incarnation of the Light.
btw. I never said ‘without reason’.
I mean more about the fact they say “much like the titans”
Yes, retcons, like the one i mention below.
Well, i will use exactly the same defense as you do with old lore which is “its still canon” you can say “its Danuser!!!” or “its nathrezim” its still written, its still a lore piece, and its still canon and its also more recent than the older lore, which mean it “stomp” on it.
Then, you are not thinking like the writers does, and for someone who claim that it take the lore as a canon thing, its very silly, because the writers are the one who decide what is canon and what is not, retcons are part of the writing proces of EVERY stories, so deniying the new lore because it retcon the old one is just going agaisnt the writers will, even Metzen did retcons, even thought he is the creator of the world building.
Plus, when your story is wow, and it had been written by many different peoples that came after the other, you just cant play small head like you are doing right now by saying “new lore is inconsistent” its not inconsistent for the writers, and for them its just changing something they dont like anymore, and you can yell that “ho but i loved the old lore” its not your story so…deal with it.
Again, (and here we getting to the point) you can dislike it how hard you want : its still canon, and you used that defense earlier agaisnt me, and its so enjoyable to give you a taste of your own medecine here.
You got me for some times, but now i got you, you hate new lore when it contradicts the old lore you like, too bad.
Dont be a gaslighter pls, give the proof or move along.
Because peny wise have reasons to be evil? (just takin one of your examples)
So helping rescue the Draenei, creating the Army of the Light before Illidan was born, recruiting Turalyon, Alleria and Lothraxion… was all about Illidan?
I think you deny the canon lore around her that exists but you don’t want it to.
When Illidan criticized Velen, Velen never called out Illidan on how he also fled Kil’jaeden or pointed out that Illidan had fel and bent the knee to the Burning Legion. I’d have loved Velen to respond to that by saying to Illidan “Remind me what you did to make your people call you ‘The Betrayer’?”
You did it! I’m so proud of you! 
pats head
You mean the “Battle for Argus Begins” cinematic, I presume.
So because Velen didn’t completely betray himself as a character, he is somehow “dumbed down”? Your preferred vision of Velen is for him to act every bit the edgelord as you view Illidan of being?
I knew I was correct not to buy your argument that Velen and Turalyon were “dumbed down” if your best example is Velen not turning into a wiseass for no reason.
I was mocking you. Since it clearly went over your head
Go play Legion. Please. And than come back and tell me that her entire reason for her existing in Legion wasn’t about her fangirling over Illidan and her prophecy for her special chosen one
She even admonished us for killing him during the Black Temple raid
I think he understood it (or maybe i give too much credit?) but he tried to be funny too i think.
And well, you are MY yes man now!
To be fair with Illidan, he fled Kil’jaeden wrath in order to recover his forces, while Velen never did flee Argus in oroder to strike back one day, it was always a desperate “run away” move.
I can get behind this. 
Which is why Hatuun calls Velen out when the draenei do return eventually.
True. To be fair to Velen though, Sargeras was also on Argus at the time. Not staying to fight him makes perfect sense if you can avoid it.
Surely, but if he would have for example joined the army of the Light himself with all his draenei on an early moment, it would have been more “courageous” i would say, but its true he just fled from planet to planets for millenias. And would have likely continued if Azeroth fell to the Legion.
Fair point. That said, considering that many of those with Velen were civilians, including children, joining the Army of Light may not have been a wise decision.
Fair point, i did not think about it. But yeah, i think, in the eyes of Illidan, its pretty understandable that he would think what he thoughts of Velen, to Illidan the “ho but there was kid” is not acceptable, i mean its Illidan =p
Of course. But you’re not defending new lore here, just your interpretation and conclusions about it. This means that it’s still hypothetical and speculative, rather than fact. It’s not unreasonable, but still speculative.
That lore snippet from SL says that the Naaru, like the Titans, are singular in purpose. That’s it. Nothing more. And you deduce whatever from that. That’s creative, but not convincing.
Further thoughts:
I don’t deny anything. I’m merely expressing my disapproval, like the OP. Seems to cause confusion, so I’ll stop doing that.
As I previously stated, the Naaru have different interpretations of what is good and right. This information is derived from the interview about Xe’ra. It’s canon. I don’t like it, quite the opposite. But it’s canon. You’re the one rejecting it, and your own source does not dispute it. So who of us is dismissing canon?
I’m undead. I can’t taste medicine. I don’t have a tongue.
Actually, it was my intention to dislike it as much as I wanted. I never pass up an opportunity to mock Danuser’s lore. If enough people do this, it may be dropped again, as it was with Me’dan. However, I did not intend to question the fact that it is Canon. It is (unfortunately).
There were plenty of examples. Of course, they differ in nuances. Sometimes reasons are important, even if they do not alter the evil mindset or perception. Sometimes they’re not.
Pennywise was an illustration of horror. Horror frequently requires absolute evil to have its effect. On the other hand, we have the ‘Losers Club’, which has some sophisticated characters. That is what I meant when I mentioned ‘different spheres’ that interact. Making Pennywise ‘more human’ would dilute the effect and add no depth to the story. I think the same about the void. And, in order to maintain the integrity of the void, the light must be preserved as well.
But I’d like to emphasize once more that this is again a matter of personal preference, particularly with horror or horror-like themes.
Yes. Why do you think Velen calling out Illidan’s hypocrisy would be a betrayal of character for him? One can call someone out without being a “wiseass”.
The dumbing down part of my comment referred to Khadgar.
I understood, so I gave him a taste of his own medicine; the thing about snarky people is they can give it but they can’t take it.
Replay Warcraft 3. Illidan fled to hide from Kil’jaeden, that “bolster his force to try again” was a lie he fed to Kil’jaeden when the demon tracked him down after Magtheridon’s defeat.
Velen fled Argus because he didn’t have the means to take on Archimonde, Kil’jaeden, the majority of their people AND Sargeras (plus he might’ve been reluctant to fight and kill his former best bro Kil’jaeden).
That doesn’t make anything I said wrong.
That’s what happened; Velen led the non-combatant Draenei to safety while the majority of fighters signed on with Xe’ra to become the Army of the Light.
Funny how many people forget/ignore that Velen had non-combatants with him… or that Illidan bent the knee to the Legion, which Velen never did even at his lowest.