I dissagree with the Light being the Bad guys

Lore Story Forum
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I’m someone who tends to not agree with the general view of the cosmology lore of Warcraft. Granted I’m not against that type of writing when it comes to fiction, lore and all. But the Idea of “Balance” or the Light being actually evil just feels boring or stupidly edgy. I do view these Cosmic forces as not just powers, but Moral principles, ((of coarse due to my personal beliefs no doubt influence)).

That the Light isn’t just a power, but it’s a Moral showing of Good, or atleast supposed to be, and the Void Evil. My view, like those who Criticize and call out the “Rejection of the Gift” by Xe’Ra, or the famous Scarlett Crusades and amongst others who used the Light and abused it in wrongful ways, no different to many scenarios that happen with us in real life.

Naaru are arguably servants still, they are not ‘The Light’, they are servant’s, or trying to be, no different than the Paladins, or Priests ((Debatable with the Void)). No doubt the Naaru are a reference to the Bible’s little details about how Angel’s likely look.

Without making this any more lengthy as I don’t want to try to keep TLDR. I basically think the idea of Balance is Boring, and the Light always being Evil is just gloomy and obnoxious. I think it should either stick to the Status Qou of the Light being the Ultimate Good, and the Void being the Prime Evil. Or in the end or later on, we have a choice, a path of our own players to choose between, ‘Good’ ‘Balance’ or ‘Rebel’. No doubt that would take too much work, but it would be nice of some sort.

What do you guys think? Am I overthinking things?

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Well atleast thadeus will agree with you, i certainly don’t like having a cosmic good

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Such opinions are indeed of coarseness, but not of course.

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I am still 100% sure that world of warcraft players consistently misunderstand the idea, that the cosmic forces are neither evil nor good, they just are. The cosmic forces are just energies that does things, similar to how fire is neither good or evil despite all it does is destroy. The cosmic forces, like fire, has no conscience, and thus can not be of any morality.

However.

Both cosmic forces have, argueably, given birth to certain life-forms that DO have a conscience - and while they are beings of either cosmic force, they are not representatives of the cosmic forces as such.

It really is not that complex to understand. Light is neither good or evil, it just is.

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People are freaking out over Light having some villains aligned with it when it’s 1000% not going to be “The light is evil” as a storyline and more that “destructive zealotry can exist under any umbrella”

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Which is weird considering the fact that Arthas used the light for awhile through the ending of the human campaign in WC3: Reign of chaos, where he argueably was a villain, hell, he even still had the light while slaughtering innocent civilians in Stratholme, and the light was not stripped from him immediately after.

Then we have the entire Scarlet Crusade in vanilla Warcraft.

It have, for the longest time, been quite obvious that the light have no morality of its own.

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I’ve said this before, but in my opinion, the problem is that they started out strongly implying that the Light is a cosmic force for good—and no, I haven’t forgotten the Scarlets, but in my opinion that just added some nuance without contradicting the idea—and that shadow/void and fel were evil. But then later writers came along and decided they didn’t want to do that, so they’re changing the cosmology after the lore had already been established.

That is what doesn’t work, for me. You can write a universe with good and evil, or you can write a universe where all cosmic forces are neutral, and either one can work and produce interesting stories. But what you can’t do is switch from one to the other midstream. It just creates a mess. And that is what has happened.

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Cosmic forces like the Light and Life are inherently more altruistic than the others being Creation and life respectively. An overzealous Naruu and an expansionistic Empire that believes in the light will not change the fact that the Light is overall the “good guy” cosmic force that a large chunk of the heroes in the setting believe in.

This very expansion has Anduin regaining his faith in the light… like come on now.

Order/Titans are the one being setup to actually be morally grey and not inherently benevolent. And that storyline has been building up since Ulduar in Wrath.

We’ve yet to really see Fel actually be depicted as good at all other than a few anti-hero characters and groups who use it. Both Fel and Void are treated as inherently corruptive and any good person that uses them has to fight back to hold the power back from taking them over. The light, Life, Arcane, etc aren’t like that.

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I still see it as following: the cosmic forces just are, much like fire, no moral conscience but they do have some sort of effect that is either a positive or a negative.

Fire is very risque, it can easily destroy if not controlled.

The void as a cosmic force inherently destroys, much like fire, it snuffs out life. But it does not do so because it wants to, it just does, it has no will, no desire, no wishes, it just spreads, it is just a primal force.

The light as a cosmic force inherently gives life, it is an energy that energizes, gives hope, but ti does not do so because it wants to, it has no will, no desire, no wishes, it just spreads, it is just a primal force.

Etc etc.

They have their effects on people, but they do not speak, they do not act, they just are.

As mentioned, it really shouldn’t be too complex to understand, and it is 100% what blizzard have been telling us since the very first chronicles book - for some reason people want to make it more complicated than it is.

One simple thing to remember is. Fire is not good or evil, fire just is despite what it does is mostly destroy, very important rule to remember, it should be easier to understand.

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That is how they are presented now. I don’t believe that was the intention in the early days of Warcraft. That’s what I mean about switching worldviews midstream.

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It is what is best implied in early days of Warcraft, considering evil paladins. It is clear the light is not gifting the light to people with a good heart.

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I don’t believe the existence of evil Light users meant (in the early days) that the Light is not good. It just meant it can be perverted.

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The existence of evil light users and the fact that the light can be perverted means exactly what I am saying - the light has no conscience, therefor, it is neither good or evil.

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It’s never really been clear whether any of the cosmic forces are sentient, so “conscience” is probably not the right way to phrase it. But the forces can still have alignments—alignments that can be overridden by the will of those who use them. That’s how I see it.

I actually think this was more interesting than “they’re all just neutral tools,” so I’m a little disappointed about the change. But that’s just my opinion.

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But if they were to have alignments they would need a conscience. You can not have an moral alignment without a conscience, that is just silly.

There is a difference between something having an effect, and something having an alignment.

The light could probably be better compared to oxygen. Oxygen is extremely good for us, but it is not a being, it is not a conscience presence, to claim it so would be silly, oxygen just is.

Just like the light is. It does good for people, but obviously, people can pervert it. But if light was ‘good’ in the way that people use it, then it would have a moral alignment, and if it has a moral alignment it has a conscience, and if it has a conscience it can deny others to use it - unless those others get the light through other methods, ahem torturing naaru, ahem.

The light just is… and I don’t understand what is so boring about that, and how that makes anything different.

The light has positive effects on people, that does not change. It is just not a ‘good guy’ so to speak. It is just a cosmic force that can have positive effect on people, but it is not good, it is not evil, it just is.

And in a similar vein, the void can have negative effects on people, but it is not a ‘bad guy’, it is just a cosmic force that can have negative effects on people, but it is not evil, it is not good, it just is.

You don’t stand outside your burning house and yells at the fire and talking about how evil and cruel it is. You’ll probably rather box the pyromaniac who set your house on fire, calling that individual evil, cruel, etc.

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Early WoW was definitely pulling harder from D&D alignment/cosmology. I think the different planes all had a conceptual alignment they worked from, but that doesn’t mean an absolute adherence to that in order to access. Some of them seem to carry a corrupting element where others do not (even Arcane was considered corruptive in the early, early days of the game). People dabbling in Shadow or Fel seem to be at risk of this, whereas Holy/Light, Elemental, Nature don’t seem to run the same risk. Or didn’t, at one time.

Even if we look at Calia vs. The Scourge or The Forsaken, using the Light to reanimate a corpse seems to leave the original person intact, where Necromancy/Death fundamentally changes them.

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Said Necromancy being a combination of Necrotic Death(Maldraxxus), Sin-filled Death(Revendreth), Pain-filled Death(Mawsworn) and Domination.

The last enslaves the Undead, the middle corrupt the Undead’s Soul and the 1st corrupts the Body.

While I’m sure the Broker’s Death Magic would corrupt the Soul I highly doubt that Bastion’s Virtue-filled Death or Ardenweald’s Nature-filled Death would damage the person reanimated in any negative way.

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No, chaos is absolutely and definitively evil.

You could make the argument for order, i guess, but i still could make an argument that you’re wrong.

I largely agree that the Light and Void should be nebulous, but I don’t agree that Blizzard has portrayed that well.

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The cosmic forces are like universal constants. Forces of energy that seemingly don’t have any inherent will of its own (Light might be an exception to this depending on how you interpret it helping people)

However, there are creatures born of these cosmic forces and they can either be good or bad depending on their own choices. We’ve seen Naaru act benevolently and we’ve also seen them act malevolently out of zealotry. Does this make the light good or bad or does it just make the naaru capable of free will? Personally, I think its the latter.

Even when we see the rest of this empire or if the Lightbound manage to invade Azeroth, it won’t be the Light being evil or the Light “Being the bad guys” it will be the Lightbound and their Light mother or the Arathi Empire being the bad guys.

Shadowlands, for all of its faults, was the perfect example of a “Cosmic force” not being a unified faction of being serving a sentient force. The covenants were all born of death, but they fought amongst themselves for their own interests. The other forces are the same way.

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This is the most frustrating part of this discussion - the constant strawmanning.

“The Light is Evil” is not something that has ever been suggested, or even slightly hinted at.

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