I dissagree with the Light being the Bad guys

[Liangni-azshara]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Prophecy goes wrong has been done before in WoW, and better. Even Velen didn’t “need that”, he already had a taste with what happened to Rakeesh.

It was not enough as his faith to the Light was not challenged, because he do says “no more runing no more hiding” after rakeesh, but he have still complete faith in the army of the Light and he still follow the prophecy as the Light Heart made him understand that “the time had come” (Since, if you recall, the Rakeesh moment was when we give him Light’s Heart) so yes he needed that to understtand he had blind faith.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

You mean like how Xe’ra tried to force fate’s hand by Lightforging Illidan?

Well, no because for her and the Light, it was a prophecy, so she was not forcing fate, she was doing fate, the fate that the Light gave him.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Again, already been done before in WoW and better.

Gives examples.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I wonder what your feelings towards that family member are? I hope things are good.

Well, the opinions i gave you above was their feedback so, i am good with that person.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

If someone brought a dangerous substance into your house after you told them not to, would you not call the police on them?

Depends who it is, and you perfectly know that Xe’ra had no paricular love for Alleria as she always questioned the army of the Light and Xe’ra while Turalyon was not actually challenging it much, you can see it in the Thousands years war audio, its not headcnon you clearly see Alleria questionning the things while Turalyon is a good lapdog.

Its only because he loves her that he was not in the “omg you should not quesiton the Light!” mood.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Then what’s the canon reason she didn’t try to do to Alleria what she tried to do to Illidan? Light’s Heart wasn’t sent to Azeroth right away.

Turalyon is the reason, explained it just above.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

You missed my point. Why play a war game that doesn’t criticize armies when you hate the very idea of the army?

Because its not just everything about army? You sound like its all about it, but no.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I like Azshara too. I think she was good but underused in BfA and look forward to seeing her again in Midnight.

I think she was used well in bfa, at least enough to make her avoid the killing shot and make it go to N’zoth which is what she needed to be what she always was : her own thing and not some servent, even if silly old gods fans wanted her to be just that, despite her character not being that.

I look forward to see her again too, even thought i doubt it will be in Midnight.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I wasn’t talking to you with that comment you replied to with this. Your criticism here was at most the same level you said the thought process was.

I dont care if it was for me or not, i just want to point it out still.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

And yet I don’t love the Scarlet Crusade, I’m so-so on the Arathi, only play Xenos factions in 40k (Eldar and Necrons, ironically)… and hate Garithos. I can’t speak for the others you’re referring to (like Nixxiom).

Then you are different from a big cluster of people that i know and that you know, i mean, you cant deny they do exist, and you perfectly whats wrong with them…humhum you know where this is going right? Nationalism all that…do note that this is also going with the “army” and warmonging category.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

She was wasted potential.

Lmao, thats bascially the thing you say when you are delusional about a character who was in the mind of the writers not meant to be more than what they had in mind for it in the frist place.

Because, ANYTHING you can say “Its wasted potential” like really ANYTHING.

Like i could say Ansurek was wasted potential too.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

That said, given what came out about certain people in a certain lawsuit (like where you conceded that mummy issues might’ve played a role in the writing when you learned about allegations of stolen milk, in case you forgot)

I will say this about that….

If someone wants to make a supposition that perhaps there was a bit of misogyny in Warcraft’s story mostly around Cata onwards, that effected characters like Sylvanas and Tyrande and Alexstrasza…they have actual legal documentation to provide support about that happening behind the scenes.

There are on the record complaints. Legal action. Government sanctions. Settlements. There is Stuff largely centered on harassment based on gender.

So, I think there is something to point to in the case of misogyny extending from the Devs to the Story.

I don’t see any legal cases about religious harassment to point to.

[Mopawl-wyrmrest-accord]

@Liangni-azshara

Then you are different from a big cluster of people that i know and that you know, i mean, you cant deny they do exist, and you perfectly whats wrong with them…humhum you know where this is going right? Nationalism

Call me crazy but I dont think video game character interests are a great indicator of someones personhood.
Sure you could find examples but corelation does not equal causation, always good to remember that.

@Cursewords-tichondrius

So, I think there is something to point to in the case of misogyny extending from the Devs to the Story.

The people accused of stealing “milk” do not have a high opinion of women?!
Surely not my Blizzard!

(I will never emotionally recover from that story )

[Thadeus-caelestrasz]

@Liangni-azshara

It was not enough as his faith to the Light was not challenged, because he do says “no more runing no more hiding” after rakeesh, but he have still complete faith in the army of the Light and he still follow the prophecy as the Light Heart made him understand that “the time had come” (Since, if you recall, the Rakeesh moment was when we give him Light’s Heart) so yes he needed that to understtand he had blind faith.

I’ll be blunt; That’s wrong and you know it.

Velen: Has faith because Light visions and prophecies repeatedly came true and saved his people from extinction by genocidal demons for thousands of years. Literal millennia worth of proof.
You: “Velen has blind faith!”

I’ve read some bad takes before, but that one was one of the stupidest.

@Liangni-azshara

Well, no because for her and the Light, it was a prophecy, so she was not forcing fate, she was doing fate, the fate that the Light gave him.

Was it really? How is fate defined in WoW?

@Liangni-azshara

Gives examples.

The Scarlet Crusade, Void prophecies, to name two.

@Liangni-azshara

Well, the opinions i gave you above was their feedback so, i am good with that person.

Good to know. Are they still in the army?

@Liangni-azshara

Depends who it is, and you perfectly know that Xe’ra had no paricular love for Alleria as she always questioned the army of the Light and Xe’ra while Turalyon was not actually challenging it much, you can see it in the Thousands years war audio, its not headcnon you clearly see Alleria questionning the things while Turalyon is a good lapdog

Except, actually, Xe’ra was fine with Alleria and didn’t have a problem with questions until Alleria suggested drinking the purple tentacle kool-aid.

But how dare Xe’ra make and enforce rules about a dangerous substance not being allowed on her own ship/home, right?

@Liangni-azshara

Its only because he loves her that he was not in the “omg you should not quesiton the Light!” mood.

Lothraxion didn’t love Alleria or Turalyon, and he questioned and didn’t get punished too.

@Liangni-azshara

Turalyon is the reason, explained it just above.

Insufficient. If Xe’ra’s as bad as you claim, what’s the canon reason she didn’t just go underhanded about it?

@Liangni-azshara

Because its not just everything about army? You sound like its all about it, but no.

“War” is literally in the name of the game and also the driving force of the plot.

@Liangni-azshara

I think she was used well in bfa, at least enough to make her avoid the killing shot and make it go to N’zoth which is what she needed to be what she always was : her own thing and not some servent, even if silly old gods fans wanted her to be just that, despite her character not being that.

I look forward to see her again too, even thought i doubt it will be in Midnight.

On this we agree. I just said that because I wanted more of her in BfA (like the cut content where she also worked with Zul).

@Liangni-azshara

I dont care if it was for me or not, i just want to point it out still.

Your opinion has been noted.

@Liangni-azshara

Then you are different from a big cluster of people that i know and that you know, i mean, you cant deny they do exist, and you perfectly whats wrong with them…humhum you know where this is going right? Nationalism all that…do note that this is also going with the “army” and warmonging category.

Nationalism has its pros and cons. PS Only brought up the Youtuber Nixxiom because he also mocked that cinematic as edgelord (compared Illidan to an angsty teen who sits in the back of the class wearing all black and saying “No one tells me what to do!”… and Nixxiom was right lol)

@Liangni-azshara

Lmao, thats bascially the thing you say when you are delusional about a character who was in the mind of the writers not meant to be more than what they had in mind for it in the frist place.

Because, ANYTHING you can say “Its wasted potential” like really ANYTHING.

Like i could say Ansurek was wasted potential too.

They gave more traits than such a character would need and flushed them away. Xe’ra’s not WoW’s first wasted potential character and won’t be the last. She’s not even the worst case of that (Kael’thas…). Just because you dislike her doesn’t mean she’s not wasted potential.

@Cursewords-tichondrius

I will say this about that….

If someone wants to make a supposition that perhaps there was a bit of misogyny in Warcraft’s story mostly around Cata onwards, that effected characters like Sylvanas and Tyrande and Alexstrasza…they have actual legal documentation to provide support about that happening behind the scenes.

There are on the record complaints. Legal action. Government sanctions. Settlements. There is Stuff largely centered on harassment based on gender.

So, I think there is something to point to in the case of misogyny extending from the Devs to the Story.

I don’t see any legal cases about religious harassment to point to.

I meant more the mommy issues angle (quite telling the Naaru we’re discussing had the title Light MOTHER) and that toxicity/evil influenced how Xe’ra’s story was handled.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Plus, Illidan did worse to Akama than what Xe’ra tried to do to Illidan, but so many forget or ignore that.

We did kind of chastise him severely with 24 of our best friends.

[Thadeus-caelestrasz]

While that is true, the story since then has tried to whitewash him.

[Liangni-azshara]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

You: “Velen has blind faith!”

But thats true he had blind faith in his visions, and by the way, Rakeesh being dead in his hands was also one of his visions, so you cant tell me that Rakeesh event made him question visions and prophecieis…because it was one. And thats where you wrong. Because you seem to not put the events in the right order. You tell me that he do quesiton visions after Rakeesh events? Where? He even mention it being a vision ><

And once he is on Argus he also says “Army of Light will be here!!!” because again, prophecy, vision etc…and its only when Illidan blow xe’ra up that he start to see its maybe not in Fate hands.

I feel you refuse to get the narrative.

And by the way, your “millenia worth of proof” is questioned by Illidan in the cineamtic when he says that Velen is a coward for fleeing, because he could have stand his grounds ; Hatuum is also a millenia worth of proof of this.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Was it really? How is fate defined in WoW?

Again, the last talk Illidan have with Velen “Didnt you see this fate prophet” meaning prophecy = fate

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

The Scarlet Crusade,

What prophecies are there?

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Void prophecies

Which ones? Because Void prophecies are mostly bs vague randome words put together that sometimes makes sense in some mad peoples mind on the forums.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Are they still in the army?

What do you think?

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Except, actually, Xe’ra was fine with Alleria and didn’t have a problem with questions until Alleria suggested drinking the purple tentacle kool-aid.

She was bascially not even trying to be anything but rejecting about it thought.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Lothraxion didn’t love Alleria or Turalyon, and he questioned and didn’t get punished too.

You mean the Nathrezim whos goal is to infiltrate the Light? Yeah. But he is not Xe’ra.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Insufficient. If Xe’ra’s as bad as you claim, what’s the canon reason she didn’t just go underhanded about it?

Because Turalyon can blow her up if she do that to his lover?

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

“War” is literally in the name of the game and also the driving force of the plot.

Its not, the diriving force of the plot is to come together to overcome odds. That was the message since war3.

Get around differences and that not all are monsters even they look likes ones etc…

I dont even see where you see any message about “we are an army!!!” in the game.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

On this we agree. I just said that because I wanted more of her in BfA (like the cut content where she also worked with Zul).

Yeah, on that i can agree with you.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

(compared Illidan to an angsty teen who sits in the back of the class wearing all black and saying “No one tells me what to do!”… and Nixxiom was right lol)

But he always was written to be like that, i mean…Illidan being Illidan =p you know? I dont know its as if people realized it just in Legion. And its what DH always was too, and therefore, Illidan did not even “invent” that.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Just because you dislike her doesn’t mean she’s not wasted potential.

Thats the thing, just because YOU LIKE her, dont mean she is a wasted potential either.

Because thats the thing i noted, you can use that “wasted potentiel” arguement for all characters really, but it all come down to one thing which is : i liked that character.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I meant more the mommy issues angle (quite telling the Naaru we’re discussing had the title Light MOTHER) and that toxicity/evil influenced how Xe’ra’s story was handled.

But i dont get, where would you see the “mummy” being bad related? Because, you see good mother in wow and bad ones, Xe’ra is “bad mother” alex is “good mother” for example. I dont see in what way you have the feeling that there is a “bad mommy” issue.

[Karestae-moon-guard]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

While that is true, the story since then has tried to whitewash him

Tried and largely failed. The story doesn’t really treat him as a savior or anything. He’s still reckless and doesn’t communicate his plans

Like when he decided to open a portal to Argus, in the middle of a demon invasion

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

the story since then has tried to whitewash him.

Y’know, it was never the story trying to whitewash him. Add context for his actions? Sure, but they were still portrayed in a negative light, even if for a positive end goal.

Xe’ra was the only one trying to whitewash his actions. All the efforts to mitigate how bad Illidan actually was came from her dialog. And she only really did that because she was zealously following her own ideology about Illidan as the savior of all life.

Maybe we shouldn’t be taking the word of Xe’ra regarding Illidan’s crimes.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

I wouldn’t say Illidan is whitewashed, exactly. He’s still an antihero, not a hero.

[Liangni-azshara]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Maybe we shouldn’t be taking the word of Xe’ra regarding Illidan’s crimes.

Well, its logical for Thadeus to take what she says as granted since he is her defender…

But yes, Illidan was not whitewashed, only problem thought, is that in chronnicles or the novel they did not talk about the fact he did slavery. As if its “fine”

[Pellex-hyjal (Pellex)]

I don’t think they’re trying to say it’s fine. I think they regret writing that part of the story and they’re just memory-holing it in hopes no one will remember or bring it up.

Illidan is one of those characters, like Sylvanas or Jaina, who suffers from being written by too many different writers with different concepts over the years.

[Mopawl-wyrmrest-accord]

@Liangni-azshara

Illidan was not whitewashed, only problem thought, is that in chronnicles or the novel they did not talk about the fact he did slavery. As if its “fine”

I mean…isn’t that kind of whitewashing?

For me, though, honestly, I really don’t think the writers ever thought in terms of good and evil. I would not really call most characters in this game heros or even anti-heros for that matter.

[Liangni-azshara]

@Mopawl-wyrmrest-accord

I mean…isn’t that kind of whitewashing?

I would not say it is, because, they dont say it dont exist, they simply avoid the thing, its still there because in the burning crusade quests its still literally here, and they did not try to “deny” it by putting a retcon to it, they just avoid the mention of it.

Same way they did not explain why he drain the waters of the Zangar Marsh (a thing a lot of people theorized for ages)

But in the novel and the chronnicles, he is still doing what he did in war3, he still do the same thing which : Sacrificies to destroy a threat.

In war3 the whole ordeal with the eye of sargeras was to kill the Lich King, but it would have caused a Cataclysm, in Legion he just do the same, same in the novel and chronnicles. Its what Illidan is.

But also, there is one point i want to mention : Illidan in tbc was badly writen, and the arguement from the writiers back then to explain whyhe was evil was “he went mad” a cheap explainations they bascially used for malygos in woltk…haaa bad writing again.

So, in a way, not wanting to explain bad writing (slavery in tbc was here just to make him look evil and tyranical)

Thats the thing i find kind of odd with peopel saying he got whitewashed in Legion…its the fact that he was badly writen in tbc and even retconed to be a tyrant but people will still be like “ho yeah but tbc made sense” no it did not.

@Mopawl-wyrmrest-accord

For me, though, honestly, I really don’t think the writers ever thought in terms of good and evil.

In tbc for Illidan they clearly wanted him to be an evil guy. And its also the same with Kael’thas :

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

(Kael’thas…).

Yes Kael’thas was another character which tbc did dirty, just like Illidan, just like Vashj, just like Kargath Bladefist, just like Tagar Spinebreaker, just like…Teron Gorefiend etc…

[Lougo-moon-guard]

The general impression I got is that the six “primordial forces” aren’t good or evil, but instead just represent different fundamental aspects of creation.

[Thadeus-caelestrasz]

@Liangni-azshara

But thats true he had blind faith in his visions, and by the way, Rakeesh being dead in his hands was also one of his visions, so you cant tell me that Rakeesh event made him question visions and prophecieis…because it was one. And thats where you wrong. Because you seem to not put the events in the right order. You tell me that he do quesiton visions after Rakeesh events? Where? He even mention it being a vision ><

And once he is on Argus he also says “Army of Light will be here!!!” because again, prophecy, vision etc…and its only when Illidan blow xe’ra up that he start to see its maybe not in Fate hands.

I feel you refuse to get the narrative.

And by the way, your “millenia worth of proof” is questioned by Illidan in the cineamtic when he says that Velen is a coward for fleeing, because he could have stand his grounds ; Hatuum is also a millenia worth of proof of this.

I feel you refuse to get the narrative.

Infallible or not, the fact remains that Velen had a lot of proof/evidence the visions were reliable, so it wasn’t blind faith. You spouting the more recent bad writing doesn’t change that history.

Illidan is a hypocrite and a know-it-all-know-nothing. Illidan bent the knee to the Burning Legion, which is worse than Velen fleeing them, and Illidan also fled Kil’jaeden to cower on Outland. He had no plan to defeat them other than “throw everything he can grab at their leaders and hope for the best.”

@Liangni-azshara

Again, the last talk Illidan have with Velen “Didnt you see this fate prophet” meaning prophecy = fate

That’s not a definition and another example of poor writing.

@Liangni-azshara

What prophecies are there?

They claimed to have visions, the point is they were an example of “prophecy not always right” done well rather than the edgelord dreck we got from Legion.

@Liangni-azshara

Which ones? Because Void prophecies are mostly bs vague randome words put together that sometimes makes sense in some mad peoples mind on the forums.

Their visions of apocalypse. Still an example of what I said; a better example of the “prophecy isn’t foolproof” angle WoW has.

@Liangni-azshara

What do you think?

For all I know, they could still be in the army and complaining at home.

@Liangni-azshara

She was bascially not even trying to be anything but rejecting about it thought.

My point about Alleria and Xe’ra still stands.

@Liangni-azshara

You mean the Nathrezim whos goal is to infiltrate the Light? Yeah. But he is not Xe’ra.

Only a possibility; Lothraxion’s true allegiance is up in the air so far. Xe’ra could read minds, so how would he be able to trick her?

@Liangni-azshara

Because Turalyon can blow her up if she do that to his lover?

I said if she was underhanded about it - forced Lightforging in secret then lying she agreed willingly; you’re ready to assume the worst of Xe’ra, canon be damned, so I’m surprised that never crossed your mind.

@Liangni-azshara

Its not, the diriving force of the plot is to come together to overcome odds. That was the message since war3.

Get around differences and that not all are monsters even they look likes ones etc…

I dont even see where you see any message about “we are an army!!!” in the game.

What “odds” are being overcome? What are these groups doing when they come together?

@Liangni-azshara

Yeah, on that i can agree with you.

Got high hopes for Midnight.

@Liangni-azshara

But he always was written to be like that, i mean…Illidan being Illidan =p you know? I dont know its as if people realized it just in Legion. And its what DH always was too, and therefore, Illidan did not even “invent" that.

Yeah, but Legion was him at his most edgelord and the story wasn’t trying to lick his hooves back them.

@Liangni-azshara

Thats the thing, just because YOU LIKE her, dont mean she is a wasted potential either.

Because thats the thing i noted, you can use that “wasted potentiel” arguement for all characters really, but it all come down to one thing which is : i liked that character.

A “no, you” response? Weak.

I don’t use “wasted potential” for every dead character. I have mixed feelings about her and think the hate she gets is ridiculous - some people whine like she bullied them in school or killed their childhood pet. Ever heard of the “Ron the Death Eater” trope?

@Liangni-azshara

But i dont get, where would you see the “mummy” being bad related? Because, you see good mother in wow and bad ones, Xe’ra is “bad mother” alex is “good mother” for example. I dont see in what way you have the feeling that there is a “bad mommy” issue.

There are things that happened in Blizzard that openly discussing tends to get the comment memory-holed (bottles of milk for babies was stolen, and I don’t mean milk from a cow, goat, sheep or any animal). Plus, in Legion, isn’t it odd that Odyn forced Helya to do his will and got away with it while the story metaphorically raked Xe’ra across the coals for trying to do it Illidan to a lesser degree?

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Y’know, it was never the story trying to whitewash him. Add context for his actions? Sure, but they were still portrayed in a negative light, even if for a positive end goal.

Xe’ra was the only one trying to whitewash his actions. All the efforts to mitigate how bad Illidan actually was came from her dialog. And she only really did that because she was zealously following her own ideology about Illidan as the savior of all life.

Maybe we shouldn’t be taking the word of Xe’ra regarding Illidan’s crimes.

There’s also other characters being dumbed down or not allowed to have answers to shill Illidan (eg; Velen, Turalyon). Xe’ra wasn’t the only character they used to try and prop up Illidan (eg; Khadgar).

I don’t think Xe’ra was a great character, but there’s more to that character than “fanatical windchime that tried to Lightforge Illidan”, and merely pointing that out has gotten me a lot of trouble and more than a few unkind words in regard to my character, which is partly why I fight so fiercely about that.

[Karestae-moon-guard]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I don’t think Xe’ra was a great character, but there’s more to that character than “fanatical windchime that tried to Lightforge Illidan

Xe’ras entire personality is literally built around fangirling for Illidan and justifying his past actions. That’s all there is to her

I think you built this fictional narrative around her, that frankly doesn’t and never has existed

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

There’s also other characters being dumbed down or not allowed to have answers to shill Illidan (eg; Velen, Turalyon).

Where did this actually happen? What did Velen do during Legion that could possibly qualify as him being “dumbed down”? How was Turalyon “dumbed down” from his prior “not even shown in-game”?

I do not buy this argument without some evidence.

[Kagehiro-zuljin]

They have all been cast as hungering mouths that want to dominate reality, at the expense of said reality.

[Liangni-azshara]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Infallible or not, the fact remains that Velen had a lot of proof/evidence the visions were reliable, so it wasn’t blind faith. You spouting the more recent bad writing doesn’t change that history.

In what is the “more recent” bad wiring? I mean, Velen was barely even expended upon before Legion, and well, in truth, i think you confuse something, because, him following his visions made his peopel survive, i know, but you are not sure and certain he would have not survived if he stood his ground, thats my point.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Illidan is a hypocrite and a know-it-all-know-nothing. Illidan bent the knee to the Burning Legion, which is worse than Velen fleeing them, and Illidan also fled Kil’jaeden to cower on Outland. He had no plan to defeat them other than “throw everything he can grab at their leaders and hope for the best.”

At least he tired to counterattack, while i am sorry to remind you that, but how manyworlds got corrupted and destroyed by the Legion because Velen was on it? Draenor was one of them, we dont know how many there was before it. Velen had no intention to stike back until he lost his son…

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

That’s not a definition and another example of poor writing.

Its literally narrative telling you how its viewved by the story.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

They claimed to have visions, the point is they were an example of “prophecy not always right” done well rather than the edgelord dreck we got from Legion.

Mate, the scarlet crusade was literally led by a dam Nathrezim, what the hell you are talking about…the crusade was from the start corrupted and never meant to do anything but bad. You cant go and tell me there was a vision of prophecy stuff related to it.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

better example of the “prophecy isn’t foolproof” angle WoW has.

Dont really see in what way its better, since the bad guys never win, but ok…

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

For all I know, they could still be in the army and complaining at home.

They no logner part of it.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Xe’ra could read minds

Sad she did not read the mind of Illidan before she was blown to pieces lmao, and i mean, Lothraxion is shady, thats my point.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I said if she was underhanded about it - forced Lightforging in secret then lying she agreed willingly; you’re ready to assume the worst of Xe’ra, canon be damned, so I’m surprised that never crossed your mind.

Can you Lightforge someone who is void touched? And also, Alleria would have defneded herself.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

What “odds” are being overcome? What are these groups doing when they come together?

Well, you ask the right quesiton here, because thats exactly what i forgot to tell you in my last message : CHAMPIONS, and they even said it times and times again since Legion : This war will not be won by armies but by champions. (Ebyssian says it in legion) Magni spam Champions in bfa, and in DF and even in TWW they do say it.

The plot is in legion that armies are worthless compared to champions with legendary items.

So no, the “we are army” thing is not here.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Got high hopes for Midnight.

I am on a tough spot, with her return, i like the character so much, and i have such a precise idea about it, that i am waiting her return, but in same time i am afraid of it because they can mess it up.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Yeah, but Legion was him at his most edgelord and the story wasn’t trying to lick his hooves back them.

I think, its because they sooo messed up in tbc, and also the fans wanted him back, because even if you find him overrated (and its my case too, i dont like that character that much) you cant deny that he sells a lot, he is literally on legion cover art, and people wanted his return since at least woltk. So i think they went just full on him.

And when you think about it, Illidan was lot more liked by writers like Metzen than for example Arthas, people loooove Arthas, but writiers dont care about this guy as much as they did Illidan.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

I don’t use “wasted potential” for every dead character. I have mixed feelings about her and think the hate she gets is ridiculous - some people whine like she bullied them in school or killed their childhood pet. Ever heard of the “Ron the Death Eater” trope?

I dont hate her, but i dont like her, i think she was written to be fanatical. I dont really see what potential you see in her and i am curious about it in all honesty.

What is “Rom the Death Eater” ?

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

There are things that happened in Blizzard that openly discussing tends to get the comment memory-holed (bottles of milk for babies was stolen, and I don’t mean milk from a cow, goat, sheep or any animal).

My milk is goat’s milk! but Joke aside, yes i know about this story and its weird.

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

Plus, in Legion, isn’t it odd that Odyn forced Helya to do his will and got away with it while the story metaphorically raked Xe’ra across the coals for trying to do it Illidan to a lesser degree?

There is 2 things there, Helya is not really a motherly figure, but either way, you can think it can either be the fact that real Odin was a jerk exactly like the one in game and the thing is, there is a very disturbing thing from the “giga chads” at blizzard (and a lot of people in america) that think vykings are “the best thing ever” so much so that they THINK in their culture that they are related to the vykings (not only the vykngs, you also have the spartan lul) and because of that, they think Odyn (Odin) is a gigachad! So its more about missplaced pride and myzognism than the “mommy thing”

For Xe’ra i dont think so either, again i think its because Illida is the writiers found it BADASS and he shut up a wemen! so its badass to them! (again think like a gigachad garrosh fan)

But in BFA, to contradict your point about the “mommy” you have a positive figure named M.O.T.H.E.R which help us beat the bad guy.