Tell them to go play D&D. (I don’t want them in my Pathfinder gamex 
)
Putting on your nice face now, I see.
The Cult of Twilight’s Hammer are big on killing their own too.
So you’re essentially going “The Cult of Twilight’s Hammer may be genocidal madmen, but at least they’re not racist?” lol you did the meme!
Believe it nor not, there are times where racism is the lesser of two evils.
Calling out harassment isn’t a victim complex. Cut the gaslighting Karestae (formerly known as Micah).
The prickly openly avowed pagan accuses me of fragile religious ego? How rich!
At least you’re getting over that old trait of being someone’s yes-man you used to have; credit where credit is due (no joke).
You don’t need supernatural power to brainwash people.
Turalyon was and acted the same before and after Illidan killed Xe’ra, the eye glow is a nothing burger. The literal reflection of golden light emanating from Xe’ra onto his eyes, nothing more.
I’m getting tired of pointing this out to people, but you seem like a reasonable guy.
If Xe’ra had control over Turalyon, she’d have used it during their disagreement over Alleria. But she didn’t because she didn’t have it. In fact Xe’ra compromised with Turalyon there (and we all know how much fanatics love compromising regarding their cause 
)
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Give credit where credit is due. The Hammer generally recruits from the downtrodden. People do a lot for a sense of belonging. Especially when society has cast them aside. The Hammer has to be stopped because they are as far in the deep end as the Crusade.
However simply dismissing Chaos or the Void is not the key to resolving this crisis. The Ethereals found that out the hard way and Alleria will have to succeed where they failed and that’s not going to be by rejecting the Chaos that she embodies.
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Xe’ra = the Light. Because, she is literally titled the “Light Mother” its like if you told me that the Titans are not Oroder, they are literally the personifications of that cosmic Force.
They are “pro-free will” but still say that because of free will the eredar became bad, so in a way they say its bad…
You can see with the Lightbound how the orcs and ogres have Light in their eyes. And well, brainwashing it still brainwashing.
No, but the Light does it as a way of making an army, like Xe’ra did.
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Nothing to get over, seeing as I never was one.
But you, like so many men, think that a man and a woman being friends, having things in common, and getting along with one another makes someone a Yes Man
It’s 2025, grow the hell up
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But if you found really cute boots they would not display.
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If you applied this argument consistently, it would have to read: Naaru = the Light.
Not all naaru have the same motives, and they have their own personalities and own goals. So your argument doesn’t work here. The title ‘Light Mother’ is meaningless because it is not intended literally, since Xe’ra wasn’t pregnant with ‘the light’.
Yes, you can respect a being’s free will even if you think its decisions are stupid.
→ Tolerance. Most democracies function this way.
The important aspect of this source is that it refutes the notion that the Naaru impose their will on beings.
This means that they’re close to the light, not that their thoughts are controlled.
The fact that golden-eyed orc priests are still fighting alongside the Mag’har against the Lightbound is most likely the best proof of this.
In fact, indoctrination or proselytization is not synonymous with brainwashing.
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The void and the light are not the big bads they are just narrow minded cosmic forces
Chronnicles says that they are all under Xe’ra’s commands, even A’dal in tbc was actually doing what Xe’ra said, (it is why it was a problem with consistency as A’dal did fight against Illidan in tbc while Xe’ra blamed the players to have killed him)
As for her title, it dont have to be literal, just the meaning of it means, that she is the motherly being of the Light and the Light highest ranking person we did see. Oh and by the way, she is also what we call a Prime Naaru, which is even higher than a “'normal” naaru.
But yeah, all naaru answer to her. Its what Chronnicles said.
Source : "Right before the invasion of Outland began, Khadgar and Velen reached out to the naaru independently, both seeking aid against the dark forces amassing on Outland. The Army of the Light heard their pleas but the Army’s battles with the Burning Legion were costly and ceaseless, so they could not spare soldiers to protect Outland. Instead, A’dal, M’uru, and O’ros volunteered to help the people of Outland and arrived with Tempest Keep.[4] "
Source : Chronnicles V.3
Army of the Light is led by Xe’ra so these Naaru obeyed to her. You can spam me as much as you want that they dont have the same goals in 2006 materials (like rise of the horde whatever) but not in Legion context.
The important thing to note in your source is that it date from 2006…back when the Light was not even considered a cosmic Force.
But it is…
Just a lil google use and you get :
"indoctrination - (noun) in the sense of training. Synonyms. training. brainwashing. drilling.
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This may be. But this doesn’t mean ‘Xe’ra = the Light’.
It means Xe’ra = Prime Naaru.
Where?
I’ve read that it was voluntary rather than ordered by Xe’ra.
That seems a little like cherry-picking. It’s still canon and wasn’t retconned. There is also this interview. You can’t simply ignore 90% of the Naaru lore even if it’s old.
Brainwashing and indoctrination aren’t the same. Brainwashing implies coercion and psychological manipulation, while indoctrination is systematic teaching of doctrine, often without force. They overlap in influencing beliefs but differ in method and intensity.
You’re apparently aiming for magical mind control (=by force). That doesn’t exist here.
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What do you see when you look at the cosmology chart from Chronnicles, you see Light and right directly connected to it, you have Naaru, which means they are the personification of the Light.
Being the Prime Naaru means, that she is the oldest and prime personification of the Light.
Again its like if you said that titans are not Order.
Also about the Mother of Light thing, she is actually a Mother, because she did have spawn, which are the other naarus.
If you take “Rise of the Horde” as source for this then ofc you wont find Xe’ra mentioned she did not exist (out of univers) back then.
And i mean, it is pure logic, Xe’ra lead the army of the Light, chronnicles says, that the army of the Light (therefore Xe’ra) sent A’dal and friends on OT.
And, do you really think they would do something that goes against her oroders or disturb her plans? Well no, because actually we know that the Light is very structured and dont really allow free will (source : unseen guest book from sl)
Its not cherry picking, its just that with chronnicles a lot of things got re-definished with the Light, and the Naaru, what they are and also the army of the Light got created which changes quite a bit of things regarding them and what they think etc…
What Yrel and the Lightbound did to the other races of Draenor was clearly with force.
As for the rest, its you VS the dictionnary at that point.
Brainwashing definition : the process of pressurizing someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means.
Oh but, you said “systematic” was in indoctrination !
And i mean, both are synonims again…
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Late to the conversation but I want to give my opinion on this. I actually don’t see a problem with using the light as a stand in for personal morality, beliefs, etc.
I say this because this game has a very notable lack of any thing in this area that some people would like to be able to familiarize themselves with the story with something they can relate in this area.
I often see people attribute the light to Christianity, which while in reality the two have more differences then they are alike, the similarities are more closer to eachs core.
Both have ethics in compassion as well as a cosmological understanding of reality which are at eachs foundation. If thats good enough for a player to enjoy in there own way I think no harm comes from it so long as that understanding does not go much further then that.
In my own personal opinion, the Light as shown in game and Christianity in real life, Hold almost nothing alike other than that one thing I mentioned. I mean…The Church of the Light is atheistic.
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Here’s the problem. Blizzard isn’t writing the Light that way… IT NEVER HAS. If you are going to use the Light as the standin for your religion, you’re not going to be happy with what is presented in the game.
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The conversations around the light is proof of that. How many times does it devolve into someone using the light as a stand in for their own morality and the conversation either runs off the rails or grinds to a sudden halt
The light is amoral at best and unfeeling at worst. It’s neither good, nor evil. It simply doesn’t care. It’s solely up to the user to use the light for good or for ill. Like any other cosmic force.
Edit: Up to a point that is. Fel and Void for example have their own dangers when using them
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What i want to point out is, how the Light (and by the Light i mean, the LIGHT AS A FORCE ITSELF!!!) see other magics ;
People keep pointing out that “ho but its not the Light itself which is fanatical or all that! its people using it!” But no, because if you see it, the Light actually bannish the darkness, harm the undead, harm the demons, in essence, it is AGAINST other Forces.
The fact that the Magic itself, even if its wielder dont “watn” to use it to harm, by essence harm the void/fel/death beings means that : The Light as a Force, dont allow them to even exist.
And thats the thing i want to point out, the fact that people are defending the Light and dont accept it to be “antagonistic” even if by essence it says in way “ho well…you are a filth demon, undead, void user so…get eradicated.”
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The Light can burn the living too… that’s what’s happening on Draenor right now, it’s desertificating the planet. Whether that’s Yrel or the Naruu behind her, isn’t specified.
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In terms of actual religious practices, The Light bears no resemblance to Christianity, but the aesthetic throughline to Catholicism is … well, undeniable.
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Yes, but also the fact that, Turalyon and Alleria if they come together gets harmed is clearly showing that the Light (and the Void) reject by nature other forces that it consider negative.
And with Turalyon and Alleria thing, we see here something that people that defend the Light either dont mention on purpose, or dont understand, but here we have the opposite of what they claim :
They constantlu claim that “the light is nor good nor evil, people using it are good or evil, but Light itself is good” but here, we have the opposite, Turalyon dont want to use to Light to harm Alleria, but even if he dont want, the Light just do it! So the Light ITSELF have a kind of “will” of its own.
The thing is that also people consider the Living as the only “moral” thing in the univers, irl it is, but in the univers of Warcraft, we hare things like Undead, and Demons, that are actually fightning for their skin and well, they are also allowed to exist.
Or that’s nothing more than the natural reaction of matter and anti-matter.
Light and Void are just inherently antagnostic to each other because that’s the way they are made.
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You did the meme again!
So, the Cult of Twilight’s Hammer exploits the downtrodden so they literally help kill the world?
Since the Scarlet Crusade aren’t looking to kill the world, or those outside what the consider their turf, unlike the Hammer, I’d say that’s false equivalence, my contrarian acquaintance.
I’ve already addressed this elsewhere, but you might not have seen it, so I’ll just leave this here;
Except everyone in the Army of the Light was a volunteer and they were still able to disagree with or challenge Xe’ra.
If that was all it took, why didn’t Xe’ra just use the Light on Alleria instead of trying to hurt or imprison her for breaking the “No Void” rule on her ship?
I remember what you used to be like.
But you want to pretend it never happened (I could make some personal attacks here based on what I know, but I won’t unless you do first and I think a taste of your own medicine will get through your new arrogance). I’d be happy letting sleeping dogs lie if you weren’t so rude and dishonest about me.
Grow up.
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