I had an old guild that had a decent amount of people that seldom did keys. Like months and months without doing any at all. We were on track for cutting edge jaina despite recruitment issues and swapping servers before classic took all our raiders lol.
If people want to push mythic bosses early then yes it helps a lot but it is not required to casually raid mythic.
The only one that matters is BotD and even then it isnât the end of the world dps increase of rank 1-3 over any of the others. Lucid is good enough at rank 1 for the classes that rely on it as increasing ranks grants an incredibly minor amount of vers on the proc (for classes that donât care about vers).
Doesnât matter. There are far better sources.
Who cares? Again, WQs do not matter and the world content you will be doing is conveniently free of pathfinder.
Why are we talking about whataboutisms in an argument? From launch means absolutely nothing RIGHT NOW. This argument holds as much weight as me mentioning literally anything from another expansion, aka, zero. AP is a literal meaningless currency that you will hit max neck by simply doing whatever.
Except 1) your math doesnât check out (150 days at even 3 minutes is 7.5 hours) and 2) are we talking people with time contraints or not? Not everyone logs on every day to do dailies believe it or not. I fly out to the major assault zone a whopping 2-3 times a week. The minor assault zone is definitely 2.
practice. Thatâs all it is. I used to think +10 was difficult. Then I got better.
or another idea, have m+ scale to party size like horrific visions. What if m+ could be solo content or 2 man content? And the HP of mobs and trash nerfed for healing specs or tank classes?
No
/10char
weâre 11/12 mythic - and admittedly fairly not-hardcore for a mythic prog guild, but about half our raid only does 1 key a week. and sometimes not that.
Iâll admit I wish theyâd do more, but Iâm not their mom and I gotta pick the battles Iâm going to fight 
each their own really. I wont force people to do m+ but I can show them how fun it can be.
I never said there ISNâT lore, I said thereâs NOT MUCH of it. And advocating for the removal of timers because it ruins your enjoyment of the story/lore is not a valid reason. Again, you have Normal, Heroic, and Mythic dungeons for that.
should prolly stick to classic i hear there is ALOT Of content for you to do there
Man, I am so glad no one is this thread is a game dev.
I never advocated for removing timers. Where are you getting this?
Iâm sure if I had the power to Iâd definitely make this game more enjoyable and worthwhile playing. I know a lot of people use I have a life or I have a job as an excuse to not play, if you want to do something you make time for it but even then you can do everything thatâs available in the current state of wow in 1-2 hours, raid takes maybe 2 hours to clear below mythic but even then once a mythic raid clears enough usually theyâre doing 1-2 hr clears.
If you havenât played since vanilla or any post expansion then the meaning of a reward may be lost on you or a lot that havenât. I mean if you think you should be rewarded just because you sub and log in for 30 minutes a week then I think thereâd be better games out there that do exactly that. If I lack the time to play a game that requires effort/time investment then Iâd be playing cod or battlefield, something that has short matches, has nothing to acquire over a long period of time that means anything other than skins. Obviously thereâs levels in games like cod where you unlock guns but there are default kits that work just as well as if you farmed for weeks to get those and sometimes better because they have perks that you wouldnât otherwise have access to without farming for awhile.
The biggest thing that is lost on players and from previous and current iterations of wow is motivating people to do engaging and worthwhile content. Most people loved the mage tower, you got a unique mog and it took some doing, well for some specs it did. Ret was a joke and so were other specs like arms I believe it was but there were plenty others that were way undertuned and I canât even really remember them hence it was faceroll and not enjoyable. But the tank mage tower was fun as hell although pretty over tuned for quite some time.
Same thing goes for pandaria challenge modes, I donât think they should unlock them again so people that didnât play current could acquire them, they werenât particularly hard when they were current.
One example for me is the war bear from ZA, I didnât get mine, Iâm pretty foggy on as to why. I think at the time I didnât care about it and just kept giving it to my guildies/friends that wanted it but never ended up taking one for my self. I kind of want it now but only for itâs rare factor and Iâd probably never use it cause Itâs not particularly appealing to me but I definitely wouldnât want them to bring it back.
Mythic+ is the most successful addition to end game systems thatâs ever been added to WoW. It is here to stay whether you like it or not, deal with it.
Whatâs your solution?
If itâs a choice between:
A timer, where people get scored, and you can pick and choose your groups based on relevant info.
Or;
Joining poor groups to wipe on trash 500x (because theyâre not good enough for the content) and still âwinâ the dungeon.
Iâm sure as heck picking option 1.
The whole reason thereâs timers is because, when difficulty scales infinitely, thereâs no other reasonable way to determine if people completed the content or not. Anyone can complete a +20 by dying 500x and taking all day.
I mean I donât get why itâs a bad thing if people âcomplete a 20 by wiling 500x on trash and taking a whole dayâ since itâs still content. You arenât in a competition with anyone unless you want to be so it shouldnât matter.
Anyway my solution would be remove the key dropping for not meeting the timer. Keep the key going up for completing it. In other words failing to beat the timer doesnât do anything but obviously you donât get the higher key.
This tiny thing has a major effect on the perception of the timer since it only has a bonus for completion not a penalty for not completing it. It changes very little but shifts the timer from being the primary element to just a bonus, and the way people view that can be huge.
If you read the vast majority of complaints about M+, while itâs usually blamed on the timer, is usually about the attitude of people in regards to it since the timer is seen as the only measure of success and not meeting the timer but still clearing the dungeon is seen as âlosingâ because you drop a ârankâ. So that attitude already breeds hostility and just gets worse and worse.
If you remove that part the timer stays relevant and you are still incentivized to beat it but without the feeling of losing if you donât beat it.
In other words change the timer from âwe lost because we didnât beat the timerâ and then looking for someone to scapegoat to âoh cool we beat the timerâ. Minor change with potentially huge impact.
I ainât your buddy, greenskin.
You immediately contradict yourself here. If you complete the dungeon over time, do you think the key lvl should increase, stay the same or decrease?
I could perhaps see an argument for the key lvl staying the same and changing dungeon.
But probably not.
I can in no way see a logical argument for the key lvl increasing if you donât meet the timer.
Both of these scenarios would move the game AWAY from the âkeys take 30mins and you can do a few a night even if youâre busyâ. They move it drastically towards a slogfest where deaths and performance donât matter, as long as everyone has endless time and emotional pain to invest.
Everyone would be doing at least one weekly key well welllll beyond what theyâre capable of doing in a reasonable time, just for the weekly chest.
Sorry I may have typed it weirdly. If you beat the timer your key goes up (like now). If you DONâT beat the timer⌠nothing happens. Your key doesnât go down. Thatâs the key point. The âpenaltyâ for not meeting the timer is removed so it stops being considered âlosingâ for not meeting the timer but still completing the dungeon. Everything else stays the same.
By removing the perception that not meeting the timer is âyou lostâ, the timer stays as a bonus but not the main goal. Itâs a very minor thing if you think about it but from a perception purpose its HUGE in how people think of things as being âfailure for losingâ and âsuccess for winningâ
Ah yes, kill an entire type of content because you get bored of it or donât like it.
How about you donât do it and let the people that enjoy it do it?
So basically what your real issue is that you want to be fully rewarded despite constant failure? You still get loot even if you donât time it. You still keep your key even if you donât time it.
You simply want all the risk removed.
No, the problem is that people view not meeting the timer as âfailingâ so it has all the negative connotations and toxicity that comes along with âwe failed because of {insert reason here}â. If you remove the âfailureâ for not meeting the timer, it puts the timer as a BONUS like itâs intended to be, not the main focus (which is beating the dungeon).
If you look at like 99% of peopleâs issues with M+ theyâll always say itâs the timer but what they really mean is that the attitude that goes along with dropping a key for not meeting the timer is seen as âwe failedâ and that immediately leads to finding someone or something to scapegoat to blame the âlossâ on.
Treat the timer as a bonus like it should be, not the goal.