Dreads main point I think, is that the old Kaldorei empire is the only one that’s remotely comparable to the Man’ari.
Which is fair. They did slaughter their way across Kalimdor afterall
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Except it isn’t, and they’re not comparable. The Kaldorei conquered almost one entire planet and didn’t end up making it a wasteland. The Man’ari wiped out several.
The kaldorei out genocide every azerothian race, including orcs if you wish to consider them azerothian.
OP wants all genociders punished, except for nelves whom are the largest azerothian perpetrators of genocidenby a monolithic margin.
How much more punishment do you propose the night elves get, pray tell?
They’re both responsible for a massive genocide. So what that one was universal and the other on a single planet. It’s still the greatest loss of life Azeroth witnessed.
And the worse part is, the kaldorei did it without any outside influence. At least the Man’ari have the The Legion made me do it or die excuse. Flimsy as it is
I haven’t suggested any. I’m just pointing out that OP is a hypocrite.
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Several thousands. Millions. Trillions? Who knows.
I believe the official lore is “countless worlds.”
Massive genocide? Greatest loss of life Azeroth witnessed? Idk, I could think of some other examples.
Not honestly, you couldn’t.
The night elves have been punished… a lot, for their hubris, that was kind of the entire point of the Sundering. The Highborne were the zenith of every negative trait the Kaldorei Empire had, and their actions resulted in them being either damned eternally to the Void or the Nether, or just flat out dead. Compound that with every scrap of suffering they’ve had since, I would say that they’ve certainly been punished by karma alone more than any of the other villains of yesteryear.
Also, again, we are talking something that happened twelve thousand years ago versus things that happened in the span of the last decade. Man’ari were gobbling souls seven years ago, in the time span. Scourge were running rampant five years ago, the last Orcening was via the Iron Horde eight years ago. Any damage done, any suffering cause, any bloodshed during the war against the troll empires happened so long ago that if Blizzard actually treated timespans and memory realistically, they would be entirely forgotten. You’d have been better to bring up Blood Elves as an example, as that’s much, much more recent and even actively happening, not night elves.
You’d have been better to bring up Blood Elves as an example, as that’s much, much more recent and even actively happening, not night elves.
Not even Blood Elves either, i’ve not seen anything remotely true to the headcanon that’s circulated around their lore with the Amani (genociding them, etc). Amani just f’ed around and found out again and again. 
What we know is Azeroth is one of if not the only living world left.
Azeroth existed in a galaxy. There are an estimated 800 billion to 3.2 Trillion planets in the galaxy.
Let’s be nice and say that it’s WoW so there are only 8,000 planets, but they all contain life (so 1/1,000,000 the lowest estimated figure, but they all have life).
Let’s give them the worldwide population of the year 1500AD as that is the middle of the Renaissance/Enlightenment. So 450,000,000. I think this is fair considering they are whole planets and they have magic and what not, so not the same constraints as IRL. Really, probably more considering Azeroth alone seems to be able to fight world ending threats every year.
450,000,000*8,000= 3,600,000,000,000. Three point Six TRILLION people killed.
Again I enjoy them being playble. I don’t think them just fitting in or the quests in anyway works. I know it’s fictional but this is basically taking the worst actions on Earth and multiplying it by cancer, then multiplying the result several times over.
And this is on the low end.
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This is a lie.
The maps before and after pax Nelfana are telling.
True, but there’s a difference between military conquest and genocide.
The accusation being levelled at the Kaldorei Empire is one of genocide, not territorial expansion. Frankly we’re not told how the Kaldorei expanded their empire save for the use of three words: Overwhelming military power.
Did the Night Elves wipe out and burn entire villages killing man, woman and child? We don’t know. Since there’s no supporting evidence one way or the other. We don’t even know how many Troll settlements existed in the lands that the Troll Empires claimed for themselves. Was it densely populated with major cities similar to Zandalar? Or were they more spread out with only a small settlement being present in a really large area of woodland for example? We just don’t know.
Yeah, that’s largely head canon from people. The Amani have lived in Zul’Aman since the Aqir and Troll War.
There was no genocide committed by the high elves. They didn’t drive the Amani from their city or anything.
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I’ll be honest I came in here ready to say it was genocide as I could have sworn forcible massive population transfers was a form of genocide. But, per a Human Rights Brief, “the forcible transfer or dislocation of a group or its adult members is not explicitly included in the exhaustive list of acts forbidden under the Genocide Convention”
So yeah Kaldorei never comitted genocide. Belves either. They DID dislocate the natives, but we have seen nothing about them attempting to literally exterminate the trolls down to the last troll.
There are a few other ways one can be found to be guitly of genocide by the ICC.
Some are more basic than others- such as “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part” and forced transfer of children… but none of these are met.
Maybe, MAYBE the Orc concentration camps could qualify based on what we saw in the Thrall book with many being starving, but I do feel the genocide label gets thrown around a lot. Even in the most liberal definition of the term only a few races have comitted genocide in this series. The rest just launch brutal conquests that, likely, kill as many but aren’t targeted destruction.
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The internment camps are a hard issue because there’s never been a situation even remotely like that in real life.
Orcs were evil, genocidal, colonists who invaded Azeroth and tried to wipe out the humans, twice. And the humans in response put the war criminals in prison camps.
It did put the humans in a completely horrible position in regards to orc children like Thrall though and there’s really no good answer for that.
Blackmoore and his lot are unquestionably evil though and abused the system for their own personal gain. Lordaeron really should have been policing and punishing these abuses rather than turning a blind eye to them.
The camps were never intended to wipe out the orcs though. The Alliance had considered that option and had rejected it. The camps were the compromise solution for what to do with this massive army of invaders.
There is, it’s just not well known about.
When people think of the Germans in WW2, they think of how the Germans put the Jewish people into concentration camps. What most people don’t consider is that after the German invasion of Russia, a significant number of prisoners in Russian gulags (which were concentration camps) were Germans. There were 1.5 million German soldiers in Russian gulags by the end of WW2 and all the way through to 1956.
So that is very close to what happened with the Orcs.
The Orcs invaded Azeroth, they lost the war and a significant number were imprisoned in internment camps.
The Germans invaded Russia, they lost the war and a significant number were imprisoned in Russian gulags.
Fair enough that’s why I’m on the fence.
If we take the more liberal modern definition it’s clear that, at mininum, it was designed to destroy Orc culture.
On the flipside if in the modern day a bunch of Greenskins from another planet invaded via a portal I doubt any leader would call for peace.
Terenas is, as always, probably the best human king in Warcraft. I can’t remember if there was a long term plan for rehabilitation. At minimum some wardens ran them as deathcamps, like Blackmoore, but I will be honest- I don’t know enough to talk about it confidently and I am not focused in that area of law IRL, focusing instead on corporate work, so I have no clue.
Plus Azerothian law is alot different than US law lol.
All I remember is that Blackmoore is, and always has been, my most hated character in Warcraft. He embodies petty, almost middle-management level evil. What he did to Thrall’s human sister, what he did to Thrall, what he did to his servants. Not one redeeming factor about him and a good example of the rot that was in the human kingdoms before putting their back to the wall forced them to “modernize”, or at least become more efficient.
Seriously, while Garithos, Sylvanas, Garrosh, etc all did worse, Garithos included for a human, Blackmoore just was such a stain of a creature.
Recommend looking up Erich Hartmann. Ace fighter pilot and, as far as I can tell, a fairly stand up person. You know… for someone who was on that side originally. Lasted a while in Soviet captivity then rebuilt the Luftwaffe in West Germany.
Hans Joachim Marseilles too but just because he played “Black Jazz” as it was known when a certain Fuhrer invited him to play music for him at an awards ceremony. Just because he knew it would make said leader extremely angry.