The orc culture of the 1st horde is a culture that needed to be destroyed. It wasn’t even the orcs’ original culture. It was a brutal violent culture that unquestionably followed a warchief and was based entirely around a might makes right philosophy.
Orcs finally seem to be moving past that culture now at least. Took them freaking long enough to get back to their actual cultural roots.
Oh yeah no argument there. If it was qualified as a genocide solely based on their culture then… it was a needed adjustment? That feels icky to type but the Horde hopped up on fel juice was not good.
Hell, the Horde in general in that time period was not good, as seen by WoD. It feels like they had something going on and just needed a spark to unleash them. That needed to be nipped in the bud.
It’s not helped by the writers making them constantly go back to the same thing, I guess because it worked the first time. But if we include the Iron Horde the Horde as a whole has been the baddies of 3 expacs which… uck. I know the Horde also fought the Iron Horde but it’s painful.
Everything Thrall talked about in restoring old traditions was just… even if we include Garrosh. It’s clear Orcs needed a reset. Probably didn’t help that their culture consisted of growing up on a world with hyper advanced birdmen to the south, Ogres who wanted to enslave them everywhere, Ogron and Bottani, and more. Draenor is the closest there was to a death world.
I do want to see the Orcs grow into a respectable and friendly civilization. We see plenty of honorable Orcs, just their society as a whole never seems to grow long term.
Lordaeron specifically was profiting of it, with terenas being well aware of blackmoores slave fighting ring and letting it continue as long as the crown got a profit of it
It does a bit, yeah. But if say viking culture magically reappeared today and they started raiding and taking slaves and whatnot, I don’t think anyone would really be opposed to stopping that culture.
Same thing with the 1st Horde orcs.
I wouldn’t hold my breath for it any time soon. Blizzard’s writing has cycled to unpopular “horde bad” stories enough times now that horde focus is practically synonymous with the expectation that players will be unhappy. The orc heritage quest was good but then the dev responsible for it quit, so without more in-depth worldbuilding to make the races more meaningful for Calamity of the Week stories (especially if we start seeing more cosmic stuff again), I wonder if the faction’s just going to putter along from here on out.
Extra frustrating that the horde’s story has become “the premise you were promised was a lie” so any immersion from vanilla until now has been a waste.
Aw, the dev who made Orc Heritage quit? I really liked that one, it was a cool chain that had a lot of nice callbacks and characters.
https://imgur.com/a/X06IGSi
tl;dr:
Only barely related to the link by way of the map of Pax Nelfana to draw comparisons with genocide:
So the night elves don’t have any excuses of fel corruption or demons controlling/deceiving them or anything. They did it clean and sober.
That’s super messed up. Sometimes Blizzard gets a bit excessive in how evil they make people, that’s a lot of evil.
And also unlike the Draenei who broke off immediately when the evil stuff started happening, the night elves didn’t do anything until Azshara started summoning demons and stuff started affecting them personally.
Missed this.
Pre:Addendum: To remind anyone and everyone: I have not come into this thread to make demands of punishment. I am merely pointing out hypocrisy.
Yeah, no, nelves who committed those crimes are still alive. Some are dead, sure. Some died on Teldrassil. Some got away scott free and lived plentiful perfect lives for ten thousand years after taking part in the largest genocide Azeroth has ever seen.
You don’t get to pass that buck to blood/high elves. Blood High Elves are no where near ten-fifteen thousand years old. They barely hit 1,000. You’re literally trying to claim The Sins of the Father when the Father is still alive and still reaping the benefits of his genocide.
Interesting til.
I find it interesting how the WotA both contradicts and supports this, but it was also like… 20 years old.
Like Broxigar was kept as a zoo animal, and they poked and prodded him, but they didn’t just murder him (though, if there was no hope of escape, up to you to decide which is better).
Sounds like late Nelf Empire is always what I imagined in my head- the equivalent of a decadent Romanish empire except ruled almost as a theocracy with their god being their queen. Unlike the Romans they never got their version of Teutoberg, just betrayal from within then the earth decided to swallow them.
Maybe all the crap Blizz throws at them is just accumulated bad karma.
Out of curiositiy did it mention anything about leaders before Azshara? The timeline always seemed wonky with it being -10,000 years from present, Azshara was essentially their god-queen, but presumably there would have been multiple generations of dark trolls becoming night elves? Else they would have remembered being trolls? Yet they weren’t long after the Black Empire so I was curious if there was any lineage before her.
It was retconned the moment that Chronicle came out.
Side note in regards to Manari-
replaying WoD for Eredar mogs. Besides the fact that no matter what class I play I seem to get loot for every other armor type (seriously got all the cloth I wanted… on my mail) I am noticing HOW MANY fun customizations there should be.
Not just fel hands. Fel seeping out of horns. Fel in the tails. Hooves which are cracked with fel seeping out. Fel tatoos. There is SO MUCH that could be done.
It’s not like fel taint goes away- look how long Belves had green eyes despite just being in proximity. Look how long Orcs have had green skin. So much possibility for customizaiton.
Damn. That series was my JAM. Read it every single summer camp. Still have my copies but they look… a bit worse for wear.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392758838891380736/1152560051488309278/image.png
Press X to doubt. That would have to mean that either Queen Azshara was using magic to influence the minds of her subjects, or she was eliminating any dissenters with her guards. The Night Elves do not have a hive mind, so the idea that ALL Night Elves loved Queen Azshara is completely unrealistic. Yes she was popular, but loved by every single Night Elf? No. Serious doubt on that claim.
Same with this, and it’s also immediately disproven, as Malfurion did not see other races as beneath him and during the War of the Ancients that followed, many of the Elves were perfectly fine working alongside the Wild Gods, Earthen, Furbolgs etc. Only the Highborne and other high ranking Night Elf nobles seemed to be deeply xenophobic.
This did not happen.
Yes, the Zandalari made a deal with Queen Azshara which was extremely one sided (in favour of the Night Elves) but ‘pain of death’ was never a condition. The deal was simple. The Zandalari use their influence over the other troll tribes to stop their incursions into Night Elf land and in exchange they get to keep their holy mountain. The Zandalari, knowing they could not defeat the Night Elves in a fight, agreed to the terms as the mountains of Zandalar were extremely important to them.
Son and/or gender appropriate denomination: I literally posted the proof.
You’re arguing with Chronicle, which was released as hard canon.
Malfurion wasn’t even born yet!
https://i.imgur.com/KbfSxSI.jpg
Jesus wept.
For what it’s worth, we are specifically… if not told implied this is the truth in the now, at parts, retconned WotA.
Even her Fel Guards fell in love with her. Everyone worshipped her no matter where she went. Every single person wanted to marry her and her goal became… marry Sargeras because only he was worthy.
And it wasn’t just the men who wanted to kiss her feet. Tyrande, while imprisoned and tortured in Azshara’s own palace felt the need to prostrate herself before Azshara when she met her in person.
Something funky is going on with her during this time and it’s not just that she is pretty. She is the strongest mage in the Empire and I have a feeling a huge part of that is her doing a massive spell, likely bolstered via the WoE, to warp perceptions or something.
But anyways now that we have playable Manari playable Naga when? I must spread the glory of my Queen.
Yeah, hate to break it to you buddy, but that doesn’t say what you think it says. Here’s what the Chronicle says, verbatim:
“Only the openly hostile troll nations drew the full attention of the elves. Small, sporadic battles ignited between the two sides. On every occasion, the trolls buckled before the devastating magics wielded by the night elves. Azshara, however, was not interested in conquest. In her eyes, the trolls were a minor nuisance, their battle lust a symptom of primitive and unenlightened minds. Ultimately, the queen struck an accord with the Zandalar tribe, which held immense influence over all other trolls. In exchange for ending troll incursions into night elf territory, the Zandalari would be allowed—by Azshara’s grace—to keep the sacred Zandalar Mountains south of the Well of Eternity.
The trolls begrudgingly agreed, fully aware that they stood no chance against their enemies’ arcane powers. This shameful acquiescence fostered the trolls’ deep resentment toward night elves, a bitter hatred that would carry on for generations to come.”
Again, just to highlight the bolded section:
In exchange for ending troll incursions into night elf territory, the Zandalari would be allowed—by Azshara’s grace—to keep the sacred Zandalar Mountains south of the Well of Eternity.
That was the deal. The trolls agreed because they knew if they didn’t, the Night Elves could invade and take the Zandalar Mountains from them, but at no point did Azshara say “Hey, do what I say or die.” which is what a ‘on pain of death’ deal looks like.
To be fair to Thrall, while not amazingly fertile Durotar didn’t use to be a desert when the Orcs settled, the Daelins forces in wc3 arrived shortly after the Orcs settled and attacked coastal settlements and had all the forests razed.
Why would trolls be hostile to an expanding empire that literally takes land from trolls, Son and/or gender appropriate denomination?
https://i.imgur.com/QoWV6vD.png
https://i.imgur.com/GA2Bs3p.png
I forgot how much you lie.