Wow %14 that’s so telling. I’m sure all your statistics are perfectly accurate.
RSV was never great, always the third string spec.
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SV utility is very similar to BM’s. Really the only things SV has over BM are the net, bandage, and higher raw damage; the latter being something that was ensured entirely artificially right out of the gate in BFA with multiple huge nerfs to BM, which suggests that they deliberately pigeonholed all PvP Hunters into SV. Everything else is the same, really. BM has the same mobility with Disengage, the same traps, the same immunity, the same self-healing CD, and it even has pretty decent burst damage and a couple useful PvP talents of its own. On top of that, you have the option of using a Spirit Beast (although you would probably opt for a healing reduction pet just like SV) and it is a fully-mobile ranged DPS on top of that. Again, the only reason SV is ahead in rated PvP is because Blizzard has artificially made it so via damage nerfs to BM and damage buffs to SV. BM was actually gaining on SV in PvP representation over the last few months until they buffed SV yet again.
I’m not sure why you think what you described addresses the problems with melee Hunters. I keep going back to the word “artifical” because that’s exactly what all these stopgap measures are; they are artificially inflating melee SV’s value by continually handing it buffs while nerfing the other Hunter specs, and even then it’s only really working in rated PvP where you are absolutely forced to take the most competitive option. It comes across as desperate and frantic. I seriously can’t recall a direct nerf to SV since it went melee that wasn’t a nerf to some gear effect that SV especially benefited from, meanwhile BM has been through multiple nuke-from-orbit level PvP nerfs like those in 7.2.5 or 8.0 and MM has totally fallen out of the rated PvP scene altogether. None of this fixes any of the core issues like the alienation of many former SV Hunters, the dilution of the class identity, the “borrowing” of BM’s identity, etc. It just makes SV the mandatory spec for rated PvP for Hunters; an area of the game that hardly anyone plays to begin with. When I’m routinely seeing epic BGs with 10+ Hunters yet none of which are Survival it clearly isn’t working out.
The funny thing is even with the artificial dominance of melee SV in rated PvP it still pales in comparison to the representation SV enjoyed in rated PvP the last time it was ranged. So even with your own myopic, PvP-focused perspective of the game melee SV still falls short of ranged SV.
No, you don’t understand. Do not tell us what we are angry about and why. We know that perfectly well ourselves while you are utterly clueless in this area. The gameplay void left by ranged SV is not the fault of BM and MM not having the same gameplay options; it’s the fault of melee Survival and nothing else. I already decided several expansions ago that ranged SV was my preferred spec over the other two. It isn’t BM or MM’s job to try and fail to emulate that gameplay style. We had Survival for that, and because of melee Survival we now don’t. It really is that simple.
Stop trying to police the discussion with this nonsense. It’s deflection and it’s frankly pathetic. It also speaks volumes as to the sheer entitlement of melee SV players when they think the Hunter class needs more overhauls and diluting/mutilating of the ranged specs just to patch up a situation caused by making melee SV while leaving melee SV itself totally untouched. It’s clear that Blizzard handing melee SV players someone else’s spec taught them that to Blizzard they are the centre of the universe and deserve everything handed to them at the expense of ranged players.
Speaking of pathetic: pretending ranged SV had sub-par gameplay.
First of all, it was a vastly more popular spec than melee SV in all aspects of the game, again even including rated PvP as of WoD, so evidently people liked the gameplay much more.
Secondly, for the billionth time in these sorts of threads because you people never get it: gameplay fluidity is not dependent on whether the spec is melee or ranged. Survival right now is almost a ranged spec. Swap out Raptor Strike with a ranged version, make auto-attack ranged, and swap out Wing Clip and Muzzle with Concussive Shot and Counter Shot respectively. Ignoring talents for the moment, those simple changes alone make it a ranged spec. Does it suddenly have “sub par gameplay” now? It has the exact same core gameplay as it did when it was melee spec but you’ve established that you think being ranged automatically makes it sub-par.
I love this way of framing it. The only other example in the game of a spec being changed to a similar degree to Survival also ended terribly. The only reason I classify the Demo overhaul as not as bad as SV is because it remained as a ranged spec. Otherwise there were a lot of parallels to the SV transition to melee. They even got gutted in the same patch (6.2, possibly the worst ever pre-Legion patch) when Blizzard thought that apparently emptying out a spec before removing it from the game was the nice thing to do since people wouldn’t continue to be attached.
Alternatively you could just go play a Rogue since that’s evidently the gameplay you are asking for.
I post in many forum arguments at a time and I don’t like to let it consume entire afternoons like it used to, so I take breaks. If I post within a day in each forum thread it means I an spending many times as much time and effort. Plus, I don’t need to respond if someone else is handling the bad melee Survival arguments in the thread like Ghorak is doing here. Sometimes I end up not checking back on a thread until a week or so later.
I hope you now know that seeing this gloating from you is what is now leading me to go through my history and respond to every Hunter forum argument I’ve been in for the past month in which I haven’t responded.
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I think that you mean goading.
You pop in and post in other threads. I’m pretty sure that I am right in this, but I can admit to being wrong. This is not an admission though.
Ive really enjoyed SV. I rolled this hunter to try a range spec and i ended up sticking with SV. Spear hunting with a pet just feels good to me.
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I meant NE Hunters stealthing like in Classic with Shadowmeld,waiting for a passerby. I don’t mean like they could have a crit buff or anything like rouges, but it’d be a fun and thematic idea, waiting for your prey while “surviving in the wild.”
As soon as you hit Aimed Shot you’ll be visible though. It’s better as a second Flag/Node Guard, have a Mage there out in the open while you are hidden.
Well Survival could be used in pvp like a literal Stealth Predator, brawling with people, versus hide-and-seek with Rouges.
I’m on my phone so I just can’t link what I’m going as, but it’s BM0/MM21/SV30. I am after Scatter, imp WC, imp Concuss.
Anyone else find it humorous that a the person professing their love for melee hunters is playing as a DH. Two of the worst things to ever happen to WoW
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pretty sure its the forum idiot’s alt char.
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Which one, Bubgrib or Illidari?
Maybe I should say; the one going around and insulting people, or the one who like MSV?
Ironic, since you more or less insult anyone who is happy surv is now melee.
I am nobody’s alt. This entire account is used only for the forums and sitting in town at the AH. I am Accrue or Commerce on 14 servers. I made Illidari only because I had the name from TBC, and let’s be honest, it needed to be a DH.
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your post doesn’t even make sense. i also don’t care if anyone feels insulted about my opinions.
well then ur just an idiot. no point coming to the forums and saying “2 ranged is enough” when it’s obviously a highly debated topic here. go play your new fav spec before it gets deleted again.
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But two ranged IS enough. You aren’t getting ranged SV back, so why continually cry about it for 3 straight years? SV is a super fun spec, and fits hunters thematically much more so than Marksmanship or even Beast Mastery in some ways. People like you are the entire reason I use a bank alt account for posting on these forums. I prefer not to get rage whispered in the middle of Mythics. Have a nice angry day!
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i see. so you’re here to insult people who lost a spec they invested many years in, post a highly contentious topic baiting those people, but don’t want to be “rage whispered” ? what a weird guy. have fun tho.
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You literally just proved the point I made.
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ironic is that your point made no sense
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You refer to someone as a forum idiot’s alt, to which I point out is ironic since all you do is insult people who don’t agree with you. You then claim I’m wrong, only to insult someone in the very same post, thereby proving my point to begin with.
This really shouldn’t be hard to grasp.
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No, I’m here to say that the melee version of SV is extremely fun and makes sense from a lore perspective and that if half of you would try it you’d agree. If you only play ranged you still have 2 Hunter specs, 3 Mage specs, Ele Shaman, Moonkin, SPriest, and 3 Warlock specs. Is that not enough for you?
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