It costs what 50 gold to respec three Azerite pieces? While I would argue with you that it should be free…it’s pretty cheap.
It can be cheap in that case, but it sucks when switching between specs, almost making it like you almost need to staying one spec.
The only problem with this is that the price doubles every time you use the azerite reforger. It starts off at 5 - 10 - 20 - 40 - 80 - 160 - 320 - 640 - 1280 - 2560 - 5120 - 10240 - 20480 - 40960 - 81920 - 163840… The only problem with this is that it gets mega expensive after only a dozen reforges (Which really isn’t that crazy bouncing between specs, 3 pieces of azerite gear switching specs 4 times will get you up to a dozen super fast.
I may want to play SV to farm mats, but then run into an elite that I need to kill for a WQ or rare in Nazja, so I switch to BM; however, I want to use MM for raiding and thats another reset.
It gets ridiculous with the cost of swapping specs. Blizzard has made it a penalty to play more than one spec.
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Doesn’t it reset after some time though? I guess I never switched specs that much.
The cost is halved every 3 days. If you run different specs you will need Azerite gear for each spec.
I agree. It’s highly interactive compared to the other two specs right now. I hope they make MM/BM more interactive because I’m an Aimed Shot Fanboi and I have so many cool pets for BM buy it’s god awful boring. Also, blizz just let me talent my pet again. This whole they’re stuck in a spec is BS.
Survival changed in a very positive way since legion. Legion survival was garbage with mongoose bite being their mastery and being totally RNG. Now you have more control and it’s wonderful to utilize. Also the talents make you a juggernaut of DPS in the right group and your cleave isn’t too bad either.
Love me some survival, just hope that MM gets love soon.
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I agree that two ranged is enough, however the current form of SV I just can’t get into. It has some good things going for it, but both the flow and theme just don’t do it for me. Want to like it but just don’t care for it. In most RPG lore Rangers have been one of my favorite classes, this version however… I dunno.
Fair enough, that’s your opinion. Though a lot of players won’t agree with you.
Why?
Despite the arguments of some people, there’s a playstyle currently missing from the class that many liked.
Now, I agree…despite my personal thoughts on the exact design of current Survival, the class should have a melee spec.
But it is still motivated for the class to get that missing playstyle back as a 4th spec option. Again, as many players would love for it to return. And it would also provide the class with additional strengths.
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Quit saying there are many players who want ranged surv back. The six or so of you who incessantly whine about it on the forums don’t constitute a lot of players.
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At the end of WoD when they destroyed RSV, hundreds of thousands of people played it. The number of people who played RSV was never below a couple hundred thousand (many more than have ever played MSV). When RSV was removed and the rest of the Hunter class was destroyed, Hunter went from being one of the most popular classes to being the least popular class. It has remained the least popular since then. This board is dead because there aren’t many hunters, and many of those that are here are largely new to the class (post Legion), or at least new to having one as main.
It is ridiculous to believe that no one misses a spec that was that popular just because there aren’t thousands of people here complaining about it 3 years later. Most of those hundreds of thousands of people have either moved on from Hunter, or moved on from WoW in no small part because of the Legion changes to Hunter. I know I was one of those people, and I personally know several others as well that have still not returned to WoW, even for a minute because of what they did to Hunter.
About 30 people signed the “bring back RSV petition” put up last week. That’s not very many, but considering the population on this board, its not nothing either. At the very least its a fair bit larger than “six of us”.
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Fixed that for you.
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You’ve moved on, but here you are still whining about Surv three years after they made it melee. And yes, the six of you who keep making this asinine posts over and over again.
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I quit a month after Legion came out. I tried it out for a bit. I tried different classes. I complained until I was blue in the face, then I quit for over a year. I came back because MM looked promising in the beta, plus I was invited to the beta. I thought maybe my voice would have some impact, even if small. I posted constantly on the beta boards, supplied numerical analyses and other meaningful feedback. It didn’t do sh*t. They didn’t listen to the beta testers at all, and we got the crap we got, but that was what brought me back.
It didn’t bring me back to Hunter though. I have one of course, and I tried really hard to like it. After 8.1 I tried again, for months, but I just don’t. It’s still crap.
Now I don’t play the game at all, so in that sense I have moved on. I am only still subscribed because of Classic.
You call it whining, I call it giving good arguments that have yet to be refuted, only complained about (your post is actual whining, in case you didn’t realize).
Not one single person is forcing you, or even asking you to read them. Why do you? Why do you then whine about them?
My behavior makes sense. From my perspective the game lost a lot of richness in it’s class design and is a shell of its former glory. I would really like to motivate a direction back towards that richness and fun. What is your motivation to constantly complain about my (and others like me) desires?
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The real question is how did SV differ that much from MM and could that play style be encapsulated within MM? I’m not a hunter main, but I remember SV being more about traps and DoTs.
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exactly why is it “too late to remove it”? they destroyed survival so why cant they just restore it?
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says the guy on his alt
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Opinions on similarities or differences vary ofc.
Objectively, the core of SV played a lot different from the core of MM. And due to talent design at the time, amongst other elements, the only part we really can look at, is the core of each spec.
But as for your question.
The real question, is not what specs were back then. As that matters less compared to what specs are like today. And more importantly, what they could become.
The exact design of RSV, or any of the other hunter specs back then, doesn’t exist anymore. You have to look at them, as they are/would look like today.
Perfect, is a subjective term here, everyone likes things differently. But either way, THIS, is what RSV could be like in todays WoW:
It would be very different in terms of playstyle and what strengths and weaknesses it would have. Compared to the other hunter specs. And yet, it would still in it’s core, be the ranged SV spec.
Warlords of Draenor:
Marksmanship’s rotation was:
- Use Chimaera Shot on cool down (9 sec cd)
- Use Rapid Fire.
- Use Aimed Shot with targets over 85% health and during Rapid Fire.
- Use Steady Shot in pairs of 2 to regenerate Focus.
- Use A Murder of Crows when available.
- Use Glaive Toss (or other level 90 talent) on cool down.
- Use Kill Shot on cool down when available.
~AoE was Multi-shot and Barrage.
Survival’s rotation was:
- Use Black Arrow on cool down.
- Use Serpent Sting.
- Use Explosive Shot on cool down and on proc.
- Use Arcane Shot when Explosive Shot is on cool down and when Thrill of the Hunt procs.
- Use Cobra Shot/Focusing Shot to regenerate Focus and refresh Serpent Sting.
- Use Glaive Shot (or other level 90 talent) on cool down.
- Use A Murder of Crows when available.
~AoE was Serpent Spread via Multi-shot and Barrage.
The difference boils down to the pacing of combat and the ebb and flow of Focus.
Marksmanship featured high Focus cost abilities with it’s build spend cycles highlighted by lots of casted abilities with several conditional abilities thrown in where available. Maximum DPS required standing still and waiting for the buff before casting Aimed Shot. Very little cumulative time spent on instant cast abilities, nothing reactive, more time spent casting Aimed/Steady overall.
Survival alternately centered around nearly all instant cast abilities with lots of procs. Lock and Load always gave 2 Focus free Explosive Shots. Thrill of the Hunt reduced the Focus costs Focus spending abilities which typically was used for Arcane Shot and normal Explosive Shots. This set up situations where, between ToTH and Lock and Load, you were firing off chains of instant cast abilities and spending much less time using active regeneration via Cobra Shot pairs (with Steady Focus) or Focusing Shot (longest cast time ability.)
While there was lots of ability overlap and similarity the actual combat and mechanics created very different play styles even before adding in talents and utility.
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Subjective opinions are relevant only to the person giving the opinion. Almost 14% of total characters during Warlords of Draenor were Hunter with a significant % of that total being ranged Survival. When Survival was nuked during BRF leading into Legion and melee that 14% had dropped to 8% and melee Survival was the least played specialization in the game for 2 full years only rising to 2nd least played specialization in BFA with Subtlety being DoA.
You should also consider that WoD started with 10,000,000 players when Hunter had 14% of total characters with Survival being one of the more popular specializations versus wherever the population is today (definitely well below the 5.4M WoD ended with) which means current melee Survival players represent a much much smaller pool of players.
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Wait, you’re basing the popularity of RSV on how many frequent posters on this forum there are who are positive towards it’s potential return?
I hate to break it to you but, most players who visit this forum don’t actually post anything. And the majority of players don’t even visit these forums at all…
Just because we don’t have 100 000 players coming on here frequently posting about the return of RSV, does not mean that it wasn’t popular. Nor does it mean that there aren’t a lot of players that still want it back.
Mas phrased it pretty well here.
The numbers are what they are…
Should I comment about the fact that there are about 3 frequent posters who continues to speak against a potential change that would pretty much do nothing but increase the popularity and the diversity of the class?
Just for the sake of doing so?
This is a MMO, even if you do not like something yourself, that doesn’t mean that the implementation/return of something to the class would be the wrong thing to do. Especially if it can actually be done without hurting or altering what is already there…
One persons opinion.
I believe Mas has flat out stated that he actually hated the old RSV. He always preferred MM. And yet, he seems to speak in favor of it’s return.
@Masoschism
Thx for putting it into writing!
Most of which were actual talent choices, and talents were specifically designed to be the same for all the specs(with only a few exceptions).
Like you’ve described yourself, the core/signature abilities of each spec, were very different. And the overall design of the core fantasy, that catered to each playstyle, actually made the gameplay feel a lot different as well.
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