I’ve only tried the WW monk one which I beat. It’s doable but tuned pretty tightly. One suggestion is to not go off old guides.
For example the strat for my challenger used to be to ignore the worm until you killed the totem guy then burn. Well that’s not doable anymore. So I killed them basically at the same time.
I am wearing the gear I did it with and talents still there too. I swapped out my dom socket chest piece for a high Verse chest I had. Only used this expansions consumes and no drums.
It is without a doubt harder then legion IMO tho. I am ok if they nerf it a little bit
So at the moment the scaling is wrong that’s the issue. If you use current shadowlands gear your much weaker than if you go get old gear that scales better. So if you think all gear scales to the same power and it’s a skill thing that’s just not the case
sure, but when the game has been killed so far and burried 6-8 feet under. you literally have consumables listed for 2 wow tokens. and no other options.
had split my time between crafting them myself *from profession lvl 1 scratch, max level just to have the price some what affordable. over 100k spent and still not there. with the consumables it may be doable after another 100 attempts. but it would be 100% impossible without them and min maxing gear.
I admitted to the error like two posts down What I’d meant to say was min maxing and grinding your character was the fun of and purpose of an RPG.
I didn’t bother to qualify it though but I will here just so we’re clear: min maxing and grinding are in no way at all limited to just gear or just skill. It is the crux of character customization which itself is the crux of a role playing game. After all the entire goal is to be able to immerse yourself as much as is possible into the role you’re given. That in no way is limited to needing to be the best or the most elite or something like that nor does it actually really only get measured in skill of gameplay. It has to do with the look, it has to do with the where one plays (instanced or open world), and yes it also does to a degree have to do with skill and gear acquired. Basically there are several metrics by which one can define how they want to hit that maximum of making a character as customized to them as they possibly can.
Quite frankly…if this is a wonderful example of everything that’s wrong with the community then I guess the concept of an rpg is just wrong to begin with. Maybe we should be doing what the limited say and just measure ourselves through third party metrics like parses or raider io scores like they’re the gospel I don’t buy into that at all but that seems to be what you’re suggesting.
Edit: Please don’t take this as me trying to call you out or educate you. That is absolutely the opposite of my intention. Too often on these forums and even in game to a large degree we’re all fallen into this habit of feeling the need to educate others that we feel are lacking. This is a mistake imho and I think most if not all of us have forgotten how to just discuss things and trust that what we say has merit.
I have no desire to bring you down and think I understood the context of what you were remarking on and agree definitely that if I had said that min maxing gear and skill is the fun and purpose of an mmo I’d be full of crap. Same for if I’d said Rio or parsing or even achievement comparing. As would anyone imho Just wanted to clarify that that’s not what I was saying.
I don’t see why I shouldn’t. You responded to what’s honestly kind of an inflammatory post (mine) in an entirely reasonable and not unkind way. I don’t see anything wrong with being called out and educated when I should have read farther. So, no snark intended, hats off to you for being the bigger person.
With that said, I still disagree with your entire premise (I… Think?), but I’ll try to be more respectful and less of a snarky jerk.
I still take issue with this statement. And based on something you say later, I’m not entirely sure we’re using the same definition of min maxing. For the sake of this post, here’s the urban dictionary definition of min maxing, which is the most common usage, and the one I use.
Usually used in the context of roleplaying games, to min/max refers to the act of designing a character in such a way that one minimizes its weaknesses and maximizes its strengths.
The actual definition talks about AI and stuff so I find this one to be more useful.
Under that definition, minmaxing specifically refers to maximizing numerical output. To say that the “[maximizing numerical output] is the purpose and fun of an RPG” is something I strongly disagree with. It can be something you enjoy, but it’s not the purpose in the same way that the purpose of WC3 is not to have your favorite Naruto characters fight each other. Possible, fun, and nothing wrong with it, but it’s not the point of the game and it’s wrong to push the view that it is the purpose.
The purpose of an RPG is to… Play a role. Not a role of “Tank/Healer/DPS”, but an immersive role. When you play FF7, the purpose of the game is to be Cloud Strife and experience his story. The numerical abstraction of levels and stats are to represent power and fulfill the fantasy of power growth throughout that story. That can be immensely satisfying, but the purpose of the game is to experience that power contextualized by relative weakness at the starting point and against the threats found at the end of that journey.
To stick with FF7, the point is not to find a way to one-shot Sephiroth. It’s to defeat Sephiroth and save the planet. You can find enjoyment in the former, but it is not the objective correct way to experience the game.
There’s a common belief in the community that if you’re not playing the game for the sole purpose of minmaxing, at the definition I used earlier, you’re just outright playing wrong, and that’s why I quoted you. I still stand by that phrase as a sequence of words that exemplifies everything wrong with this community.
And then you say this and I don’t think we philosophically differ as much as we do semantically. Playing to get the most out of the game-- to minmax your experience-- isn’t unsound. Minmaxing your numbers because that’s your favorite part, minmaxing your transmog because that’s your favorite part, minmaxing RP because that’s your favorite part (I dunno how you’d even do that but YOLO), are all ideas I definitely don’t disagree with.
So… I just wanted to post this to expand on my thought, I’m not even trying to argue or anything. Thank you for being reasonable and kind on the WoW forums, even after I presented myself poorly.
Likewise I appreciate the information and the gracious reply I would be the first to say that I use terms fairly broadly but I think generally most of us agree on more things than we disagree with just it gets lost a whole lot in the language we use xD
As for the calling out and educating…I’ve seen that sort of line of thought devolve too often into just debating and outright nasty sniping of character. Not here and now of course but yea…I am just so done with that. Even if others do it I don’t want to engage them at that level anymore so I don’t. So I tried to clarify that I wasn’t because I could see how what I said might push buttons. Again thank you for being so gracious <3
Oh its gotten to the point where when people say I’m playing wrong or doing the wrong covenant or talent set up or whatnot I in no uncertain terms tell that that until they start paying my monthly sub they have no authority to tell me anything.
Sometimes they end up shutting up, other times they double down and keep at it. *shrugs
At that point I just lol everything they say.
I got tired of other people in game or even on the forums giving me grief for being a clicker as well as other things so now I just tend to either ignore them or lol at them until they leave me alone.
I think they just feel that insecure. Which I just don’t get. Like objectively yes there are better ways in which one can put out numbers and do some sort of maximum of some metric. But so what if others don’t? It’s not too much of a stretch to tell someone “this is what you could be doing if you wanted to, just sharing the information” vs needing to say “no this is what you should be doing.” You’d think that the fact that they can do whatever those better ways are would have them feeling more secure not less such that they could live with others doing things differently.
About the one exception I’d give to this is if it’s in their content that they’ve chosen and if there has been no discussion beforehand of what I might be bringing, good or bad. Then sure, I can understand being upset enough to have to lecture. That has nothing to do with insecurity but moreso has to do with just being plain upset at failing the objective so hard by something that could have been communicated beforehand and adjusted to. An example of this (pug keys are actually a glaring example but will use something else) is if I decided I wanted to PvP with a friend who wanted a 2s partner at 1800 while refusing to LoS and bringing no Vers gear because I don’t like Vers. I think he or she’d be justified at being mad at me if I hadn’t informed him before of these things
I like pvp on occasion but If I truly wanted to get into it more I’d have to get a ton of vers gear. The problem though is that means I lose all the haste I’ve gotten and without haste unholy is shot lol. Plus shackle the unworthy is buffed by haste so it would end up making my covenant ability weak.
In FF14 you can do that . There are orchestration rolls (musical songs you can listen to in game), haircuts, dyes to change the color of your gear, and even emotes that you can collect in addition to the standard MMO stuff.
This is the part WoW somehow fails to get. That customizing your character is everything in an MMO. Even moreso than instanced content. Instanced content is just a minigame in comparison and about the smallest aspect of character definition there can be
More transmogs! More goofy sidequests to get toys and mounts that are equally goofy! Player housing! Get on it Blizzard
To be fair I’m the kind of person that will flat out refuse to wear a newly looted higher ilvl piece of gear until it’s been transmogged xD I will suffer the X dps loss or whatever to look fabulous
What I’d meant to say was min maxing and grinding your character was the fun of and purpose of an RPG.
Just wanted to clarify that that’s not what I was saying.
I would be the first to say that I use terms fairly broadly but I think generally most of us agree on more things than we disagree with just it gets lost a whole lot in the language we use xD
. There are orchestration rolls (musical songs you can listen to in game), haircuts, dyes to change the color of your gear, and even emotes that you can collect in addition to the standard MMO stuff.