No real answer, varies based on each player’s views. You will not and cannot receive a unanimous answer.
Yes, I can remember on the old WoW forums.
Any mention of a cash shop for WoW, of any sort, was blasphemy.
If you have to ask “is this P2W” then it probably isn’t. When you’re playing a P2W game it’s real obvious real quick. You’ll very quickly see the common gimmicks that denote P2W, like in Diablo Immortal.
haha. r people really saying dat buying gold is not pay to win? haha.
2 Likes
Over the years I’ve made fat gold being a carry in GDKP, I have had over all better experience in gdkps then other forms. SR and MS/OS runs which sometimes are fine… MOST the time to many peeps leave and the replacing of players makes them take to long. Also when the gear I want drops in SR/MS/OS and I lose I get nothing… IF the gear I dont want drops I get nothing: in the GDKP I still earn my dragon kill points for next week. “gold”. I play my chars for my enjoyment, I gear for my enjoyment If some other player is buying his gold with card swipes or earning it in HR raids they set up, or being funneled gear by their guild I dont care. It honestly has zero effect on my chars that I play.
That is my whole point. When you set the definition of p2w (that many people do) as simply “anything you can purchase that is otherwise unobtainable through gameplay” then you open up room for things like ridiculous 5000 hours grinds that can be avoided by paying that doesn’t technically qualify by that definition.
So the solution is to then change the definition to include “well anything that is obtainable within reason doesn’t count” which is creating a situation where a line has to be drawn that simply cannot be easily drawn for many reasons. Due to the fact that it cannot be easily defined it allows room for gaming companies to try and move that line to fit where it is at the least ethical it can be without drawing outrage.
Due to this, in my opinion, it is far better to simply define all of these things as p2w and decide how ethical they are on a case by case basis. Thus WoW Classic is a p2w game due to the presence of legal systems allowing the purchase of items that give power and skip parts of playing the game. It is a very unusual p2w system (due to requiring a weird retail/classic trading grey area) and certainly on the side of being one of the more ethical p2w systems, but it is still p2w.
1 Like
they also keep forgettting even gdkp cannot guarantee drops.
BT did not go oh its gdkp…glaives 100% drop. Illidan could not be bribed.
rogue or warrior X went into the gdkp with the same gaurantee of drop as a normal one. 0.
I don’t see it p2w if dropped. I’d deem it p 2 skip over loot council crap. Or MS>OS drama.
Rogue…that warrior needs the glaives. you can use daggers. and the rogue is going nah dude…I am trying to be sword combat rogue. Sword/glaive is MS for me.
Not P2W: No required purchases besides a subscription. No in game items for purchase. No grind/story skips to purchase. No required outside purchases to access content that would otherwise be free(expansions do not fall into this). Store mounts and cosmetics that have no in game power increase are also not P2W.
P2W: You can buy skips, you can buy gear, you can buy endless exp boosts, required additional purchases to play the game, has a “game pass” style interface, can purchase exclusive powerful items not available in game.
If you want an example of a extremely P2W game check out SW the old republic online. WoW is very very far and away from a P2W game.
Yeah, you could buy gold today and never see the item you bought the gold for drop. Its most definitely P2W tho 
1 Like
“well damn, this dude has 100k, guess ill just drop everything they need right into their bags”
-Algalon
I wish that was an option. NGL…in retail to end the cycle of invincible pain…if a pop up came up saying 200K and it drops for sure I’d take it.
At least 4 classes mogged out there with even the rng on that. many many many many runs. 200K to end that? take 300K. the extra 100K a tip.
My warrior from original Wrath never saw betrayer or the mace from 25man Arthas drop all through the expansion. I’m sure at one point I would’ve cursed RNG and just bought it lmao.
1 Like
My definition of “winning” in WoW consists of 3 parts
- Clearing current content
- Full bis
- Good parses/raid performance
RMT could get you 1. And 2. But has no effect on 3.
You need all 3 to be “winning”
Garbage players can swipe all day long and so long as they remain garbage they’re never “winning”
If a good player spends gold to achieve 1. And 2. But 3. Is totally dependant on their skill, is it really PTW or is it just a loot system?
I’m under no illusion some people RMT to play GDKPs but if you GDKP often you don’t need to RMT because you have a good source of very decent money, earnt legitimately.
It’s no where near as wide spread as people claim
Like, I’ve got 70k - that’s not an huge amount but enough to do some GDKPs. Might buy some drops might not, the money is still paid out at the end of the run. If I don’t buy anything because nothing good drops that’s just more money for next time.
Now picture people have been doing this every week for multiple raid tiers and multiple expansions - it’s reasonable to assume they’ve stacked up ALOT of gold through legitimate means
Now add in professions, investments and just general gold making through dailies and raid runs and the fact consumes are fort cheap and there’s not really anything to buy.
That’s a recipe for having thousands and thousands of gold for little effort and absolutely 0 need to even think about RMTing
I lean to loot system.
retail side many of the usual actual contenders for WFR have been caught RMT’ing at least once.
some go see its p2w!
I go…no. its is not my gear that has me not making the cutoff to be on team echo, limited, etc. I know I lack in raid skills quite well.
If a classic player would like to test this out, send me gold. I could give a name on whitemane too. ret paladin. I could go prot. and you’d still not want me on algalon
I promise the gold would got to gdkp. I also promise to really try. I also promise…I’d not be WFR skilled this way. Nor retails top 100 hall of fame.
the main items people are swiping for are valanyr, mim’s head, and shadowmourne
i dont know if a mount is considered p2w of course
You can also just get you full bis free of charge on a corrupt loot council before the person buying gold does in a gdkp. Or some who just rolls well in a Ms/Os run where the loot drops, if classic was truly P2W then if a person spent $1,000,000 irl on gold they should be garenteed atleast an advantage of some kind playing the game normally right? Except they dont, you could walk into a gdpk ready to spend millions of gold, but if nothing you want drops, you can walk out not having spent a dime, or have an ounce of power increase. Thats not a p2w system.
That’s a really naively narrow definition of P2W.
By that logic Diablo Immoral isn’t P2W. Everything available with $$$ is available for free after all! Granted it’d take you 5 years to gain F2P what you can buy for $50… but its still possible so nOt P2wIn AMIRITE!!!
No… The distinction being made was that… a game having third parties engaging in RMT does not inherently make the game P2W. People are engaging in prohibited activities to gain an advantage, IE… they’re cheating… But that’s not a reflection on the game itself.
5 years is not “reasonably”. So this isn’t a good comparison.
Everyone knows a game that it would take you 5 years vs $50 to get something is p2w and no one disputes that. Because that timeframe is not reasonable.
Well even with this entirely contrived definition you’re still just speaking in subjective terms about what you consider “reasonable.”
If spending $50 for an exp boost that saves you 5 years of time is P2W, then so is spending $5 for an exp boost that saves you 5 hours. You can’t have it both ways.
If you can buy an exp boost, thats P2W. Even though that exp can obviously be acquired organically without a purchase. You’re spending $$$ to gain an in-game benefit. IE… you’re “paying” to “win.”