Unless blizzard blocks all data exit I feel there will always be some form of rating, impossible to change since players will find a way.
Which is why I feel limiting covenants help, because it makes that min maxing way of playing extremely hard and requires going through a lot of hoops.
So most players will be forced to play the way you Ion himself says, find a build you gravitate towards with strengths and weaknesses you enjoy
They can still min max, just requires a ton of effort like min maxing should, if you only care about maximizing performance then you should be ready to work for it.
It is the only solution as they have to take side, either they side with the high end and make everything easy to change therefore hurting casuals because people will exclude them for not having the meta covenant build or they side with casuals and limit covenants and therefore min maxing leading to people being forced to play with non min maxing because they aren’t allowed to be optimal at everything therefore teaching people you don’t need to be optimal to do content.
I am sure there ll be a minority who ll refuse to invite anyone other than venthyr for example, but I don’t feel most ppl are gonna be that extreme.
It is an either us or them situation rly, there’s no solution afai am aware that works for both (in b4 someone says exclusion isn’t a problem that needs fixing therefore solution is to make the, like talents therefore completely ignoring the entire problem )
I agree in a way. Maybe if specs couldn’t be so freely changed It would fix some of the issues with exclusion. Make every choice one that can’t be reversed.
This entire rant is the height of irony and hypocrisy. Trying to gatekeep how others should play is the hight of elitism.
Min-maxxers aren’t forcing you to play at mythic level, you however are super giddy that min-maxxers will have a much harder time playing their game then you will.
Honestly. I do not fully disagree. Sometime back I made a thread on how LFR and other tools actually hurt the community. Even actually contributed to many of the unhealthy things we see now. Just as crossing the realms has in a way contributed to exclusion in some ways. Although I also noted these tools are important to stay in place until they find a way of dealing with the damage caused by the tools making the community a toxic place. I am still a supporter of LFR because right now the community is so gross, finding a group without it is getting increasingly more difficult. Not sure if you follow what I’m laying down.
I play Frost Mage as my raiding spec. There are those who would already say that I’m a loser, a leech, a carry, that i’m holding my guild back, etc…for not playing the FoTM mage spec which is Fire. But the thing is, I don’t enjoy Fire, nor am I even good at it. So I play Frost instead.
However, I do take the spec I am decent with and enjoy, and play it to the best of my ability. I research Frost DPS, and I practice with it. I’m always open to improving myself on those grounds. Which should be fine, imo.
It will be the same with covenants. I like Night Fae, even though it’s looking like Necrolord or Kyrian will be the way to go for pure Mage DPS. Nevertheless I will choose Night Fae. But it doesn’t mean I can’t take that choice, embrace the hell out of it, and do the best I can with it.
But at the end of the day, it’s impossible to refute that exclusion and actually pushing content aren’t explicitly inclusive.
The basic fact you can PuG Heroic N’zoth and many Mythic bosses, as well as stuff +20’s (or higher) and the fact that LFR is well…LFR, is irrefutable proof of that.
It’s not the same as covenants! 2 special abilities and some modifers via conduits are NOT the same as an entire class with three massive talent trees, both pve and pvp and numerous other compexities at work.
People need to stop eating up the Blizzard PR marketing the Covenants as if they’re entire new classes…
I said that I’m taking the same approach. Picking what I like and doing the best I can with it.
It will be even less of an impact with covenants, as a matter of fact. Those are only small additions to your character. Why can’t we just pick the ones we like and be done with it?
If it was only “small additions” you would have a point. The reality is the difference between some of these is a delta as wide as 30% to 40% power differences. This will likely stay very similar at launch and won’t be properly balanced towards the end of Shadowlands.
Such a system will only make it more difficult to get the most out of your character.
You will see exactly why even casuals won’t like this system especially if they are pugging casuals like myself.
"Inviting only Venthyr Resto druids for AOTC, don’t even bother applying if not Venthyr.
The meta will always be respected in online games where your actions and choices effect others.
Don’t know what to say then honestly. I don’t pug and only run content with my guild or friends. I’m not at all concerned about being able to run content, as I can pick any option I want and still count on going.
Seems like those kind of groups wouldn’t really be that fun anyway though.
You are lucky then, not everyone has a guild that they can attend on time and where people will bring them even if they pull 16k dps in 470 gear. (Not saying you do, but I’ve seen some things…)
Pretty much the same, I am playing shadow priest even though it is pretty far from FotM and doing content just fine including mythic bosses, never actually ever felt like I got carried when I am performing well even sometimes against better specs, but that kind of person likes to pretend if you don’t min max to death and play meta of meta build you are being bad which is factually wrong.
This mentality of your don’t play FotM or meta build therefore you are bad’ needs to be eradicated not only because it is toxic but because it is also factually wrong.
Eh, it took me a while to find a guild like that, but it is a worthwhile thing to search for. I specifically looked for the sort of guild that cares about its members, that looks at them as human beings and not as numbers or class spec icons.
The pug scene on the other hand just seems cutthroat and harsh. I can’t understand why anyone can find that fun.
Eh as a priest at least you kind of have an excuse. If you want to DPS you only have one option.
Me on the other hand, what would you do in my situation?
-Force myself to play fire, even though I hate it and do terrible with it, thus would get less DPS out of it anyway? Or…
-Stick with what you like, which is frost, even if it’s not FotM, and are doing better with it?
I don’t know about that, the pug scene is cutthroat, but not nearly as harsh or extremely toxic as some guild politics. I personally haven’t been in a guild that doesn’t have some underlying nonsense happening in leadership.
I’d pug all the way to AOTC each time. It’s more successful too, rather then some really really bad guilds, stocked to the top with bads, usually including leadership itself.
I mean, at least in a decent guild, you don’t have to worry about getting rejected as a resto druid who isn’t Venthyr if the pug community deems you to be inferior.
I’m not in some cutting edge guild, and we’re not the best players in the world. We do have fun and we do eventually get AotC though. Even bad players need to be able to play too, right? I love my inclusive community. I can make a mistake while learning a new raid and not get raged at/kicked for it.