People should learn that exclusion is a disease.
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You are all over the place with this
What do you mean? I have always said Exclusion sucks.
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How do you determine if someone is skilled if you’ve never played with them before?
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I have no idea what you want or are suggesting.
I just want to eliminate exclusion everywhere that it’s unnecessary. Or when done in ways that are not necessary as well.
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How though?
When you talk about exclusion here, your definition seems very broad
That is because I am forced to. When I try to be specific people find weird little ways to try to worm it into situations that matches their narrative
This forum is full of people trying to “Gacha”
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So keeping it to the thread subject - how do you want to remove exclusivity that rises from a meta?
I just want to remove the exclusive of specific classes or spec where possible. To me it’s understandable that this happens in the extreme top end. But unnecessary at the lower and middle.
honestly my view stretched larger then that. But I conceded stuff like M+30 and such prolly is difficult if not impossible without that type of exclusion. Blizzard would have to fix that.
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Why is it unnecessary in middle and low end?
Meta provides a margin of error to players who may not be able to perform so well. It lets people get more value out of less time.
I get the idea that top end players will go to meta, but you and Ralph are really ignoring a lot of factors of mid-level players.
Sad part is Blizzard and the players made the game the way it is now. Obsessed with MAXIMUM optimization. Players became obsessed with it like a bunch of tryhards, then Blizzard would create content around that.
Stupid mindset that has taken this game from being a mmorpg and made it into a esports contest.
I hope the whole thing blows up in both the players and Blizzards faces. Personally I will pick whatever I want and enjoy it. To hell with your meta nonsense.
The word “optimization” should not even exist in mmorpgs.
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I half way agree. Although you are a bit more extreme then myself.
A lot of exclusion in the lower end comes down to the fact there’s no reason not to do it.
If you’re making a group for a low level M+ (like sub 5), you’re gunna get like 10 applications for that group, and there’s no reason to not be exclusionary at that point, because why would you take a Spriest or Feral Druid over the BM Hunter or Havoc DH applying for the group?
Arguably you’re incentivised to do it, simply because those specs are more powerful, so skill and gear being equal, they’re going to bring more to the table and make the run easier overall.
MMO’s are probably the genre most famous for optimization.
Seriously, like all the big names who actually designed WoW were basically the “guy with no life” dude from the South Park WoW Episode, but in Everquest.
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Because for some people. It’s actually harder to get a group now days then it was for them in Vanilla (original flavor, not the new recipe) even with all the tools provided. Which is absurd.
So how do you solve this?
In any hobby where people want to perform well, people will go to the meta. That’s a fact. It exists everywhere.
There are more difficulties now than ever, and the ceiling is higher than it’s ever been. Maybe people who don’t want to play meta shouldn’t expect that they need to push ahead with people who follow it. Acknowledge your limits if you’re going to impose them on yourself.
Where is the source that say Covenants are here to fix the toxic community?
They are a game play feature/mechanic and nothing to do with “toxic” players.
Dropping support for some of the tools that assist in it would help. As would be dropping support to websites that push the ideas. It’s impossible to fully get rid of I agree. But they can mitigate it. That or players just agree that it’s a bad idea and stop doing it themselves. Although this is hard to get people to do.
But you should understand Exclusion and the way this community treats people has a huge effect on how many people stay with the game. Community and the way new or old players see it, is a huge part of an MMo’s success.
The same tools that solidly defined roles also killed community
That doesn’t fix the problem. It just hides it though.
People would still exclude based on class/specs. You don’t need the combat log to tell you that a spec like a Spriest functionally brings nothing to the group over other specs.
Which I find ironic, because the tools that mitigate exclusion are those that “killed” the community.
Being blunt, but it doesn’t matter how much you suck in LFG or LFR because you can always get a new group that has no history on your previous performance.
Whereas the few communities that still exist within WoW are the most likely to remember you sucking and exclude you based on that.
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