lol they have a shield when they enter stealth so it doesnt break.
yeah let me just coinflip rogues location.
got nerfed for some reason
same arguement as AOE
yeah this just shouldnt be viable in high level arena.
Thats the point of this thread. I was asking why hunters mark was nerfed… whats the criteria behind it… “Ooops, hunters shouldn’t be THAT good against rogues, our precious rogues are suffering!!! marks needs a nerf!!!”
What is worse about current hunters mark though than like classic version I still don’t understand what you’re talking about?
This version of HM has a half global and is purely for utility
Are you guys referencing the conduit bug that got nerfed or what?
The only point anyways is that doesn’t even impact the current meta to begin with, there’s so many better changes that could be made to improve hunter representation long term than just randomly buffing hunters mark
I said earlier too though if you want better anti stealth you’d be better off buffing flare, that’s something that’s actually gotten far worse at countering rogues over the years… but again that’s not really going to impact rep much in the current meta where we just see a ton of outlaw rogues who don’t even care about actually getting restealths
Set and forget abilities are bad, mark is fine as it is. The problems we are having with rogues are rogue problems not mark being bad problems.
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If it has no difference its duration could be like it was before. Problem solved, theres no difference according to you.
What has changed with its duration though
I’m just not sure what you’re even asking here? What’s the difference between now and how it’s always been with HM? Or are you referencing when it first got reimplemented and just didn’t have a duration or something (something it did have in the past though pre pruning)
While I don’t see how that would change anything positively or negatively whats the rationale with thinking that’s going to improve viability? Either way a rogue only gets it off with a dispel or cloak so I don’t see what your mindset is on that improving anything
Keep in mind you mentioned AWC viability needing improvement and this is your suggestion to fixing that lol? You just have these specific goals in mind but you’re suggesting things that have little to no impact competitively. However it seems like they’re quality of life improvements for your own personal gripes which is one thing, but framing it as “this is why hunters have bad rep” is super questionable lol
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30 seconds duration its a shadowlands change.
It got reimplemented into shadowlands after not existing since mop
Old pvp duration was also 30 seconds iirc (might have been 1 minute), never permanent (even in classic on mobs it had limited duration)
You had to keep it refreshed before as well, except it used to have a full global attached to it, plus you needed it for damage (of course marksman at least had mfd talent that applied a physical hunters mark debuff which saved you the global)
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No, 30 seconds its a shadowlands change. I clearly remember when the change came in and it bothered me.
WoTLK clip I found has it at 2 mins, and this is when it also was a damage increase too
MoP one I’m looking at looks like 60 seconds but the quality is terrible
Either way Shadowlands is the only non damage version of it, you can increase the duration to those sure but again the question remains, what is this changing? What situation does this help? A random 1v1 or something? How does this change anything in a rated arena environment, especially enough to magically make hunters own in AWC or something?
By all means you can increase the duration like I said but what’s the goal here?
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Its on the timing. Just look mage debuff icons!
What is the video you linked showing me, this is a shadowlands video?
Or are you talking about me not being able to tell the duration in the MoP clip? It’s just from god awful video quality you can’t make out the duration
But you’re free to look at it yourself if that’s what you’re asking:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921558408807714816/996775334487805973/unknown.png
It’s either 60 seconds or 120
Anyways like I keep saying what would the duration of the utility only version of hunters mark do for PvP? I don’t see any harm in changing it, but I don’t see a benefit either because with how short it’s global is I’ve never had it naturally fall off in arena
Has to get dispelled or cloaked off only, in which case I’m not getting where your argument is intended to help viability, and then even less so when outlaw rogues are the meta rogue spec who just stay in combat the entire game pretty much
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So, its not 30 like is right now. Its not the same. Got it.
Mages and rogues resets the fight very often. This change would impact this kind of gameplay.
Yes, I even said that’s likely earlier for MoP
But also that’s a damage version of hunters mark too versus the pure utility one that’s again, half a global
I think the biggest mental disconnect for you here is I’m not really arguing against anything being changed but moreso arguing that if your goal is to make hunters more competitive you should focus on things more relevant… I’m just repeating myself over and over though and it seems like you’re going to keep ignoring other points, dnno what else I could do to make this productive for you
How though? If it’s in arena you can already keep it up on them permanently unless they cloak or dispel it (and dispelling needs you to be CC’d because it’s really easy to insta reapply on a dispel otherwise)
I mean it would make it more rewarding if you’re playing badly I guess? But then this makes it seem like a post more focused on just making it easier on you, which is just kind of a separate argument altogether, and made you mentioning AWC previously pointless because in any competitive game I’m easily keeping hunters mark up the entire game unless it just gets dispelled or cloaked off, it’s not falling off naturally and it’s super easy to keep it reapplied because of the half global
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you’re trying to convince me that a skill with half its duration has the same efficiency as twice its duration, it doesn’t.
Hunter’s mark 1+ min duration, could change a gameplay thorugh efficiency and psicological aspects. If i burn a cloak of shadows and reapply a hunters mark i could put all efforts on damage because i know rogue has mark and it’s not going away.
Hunters Mark 30 seconds duration must be reapplied constantly, even a half GCD has a burden.
Nah what I’m saying is with the global being so short and you having plenty of those free globals vs rogues that it should never be a struggle to keep hunters mark up permanently on a rogue team
It should never fall off without a dispel or cloak
It can be made easier if you’re playing improperly, which I didn’t disagree with - but again this makes it seem as your suggestion is moreso based on being a little bit easier quality of life for you rather than truly wanting to improve hunter performance
So if another hunter is playing properly it doesn’t impact them hence thinking this improves hunters in high levels of play is why I said it’s effectively irrelevant
huh?
if the healer is good though he’s going to dispel it consistently so you have to be prepared to reapply it/keep your pet on rogue anyways in these situations
But also you get tons of free globals vs rogues so keeping it up shouldn’t actually be a burden
And lastly, outlaw rogues are meta and they don’t even go for restealths
long term it can be more convenient I don’t disagree but this is you just asking for a qol change and not something for viability
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Mage/rogue are very common on 2s. Theres no healer.
GCD are always a burden. A damage skill, slow instead of a mark is VERY relevant, mainly in a burst meta which every milisecond counts.
Oh if you’re fighting mage rogue how are you not keeping up hunters mark permanently though
Rogue mage is going to naturally kite you or you have to wait for certain damage windows so you get plenty of free globals
or when you’re running away/prekiting a go you’re not doing damage at that time and you’re keeping up hunters mark
But yeah then you’re just back to mentioning 2v2, so where is this awc relevant again?
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Just bring back normal duration. Theres no debate or reason for it being nerfed to 30 seconds.
You can juggle saying that it is possible to reapply 900x per match without impacting damage/slow/dispell or X or Y. Bring the skill to the initial stage.
Ok fine, but how is this helping hunters in 3v3? Seems now you’ve complained about purely 2v2 right? Where hunters shine really heavily…
I’m just trying to understand what your goal is here
Are you asking for QOL or hunters to be more competitive?