MM is now the worst ST spec in raid, pretty much tied with augmentation lol.
Glad they literally ignored us the entire tier so we could rot in the bottom.
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Perfect example is look how helpful the embellish cloak was last season, pre-nerf. That constant ticking refill just helps so much to keep you at 80%+ instead of around 50-60% all the time.
A proper spirit mend ticking away plus a second non-pet based heal plus turtle allowing combat would probably do it. Exhilaration (1M CD) plus Fortitude of the Bear (for all pets) plus spirit mend and Turtle allowing attacks and weâd no longer be the squishmellows we are.
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Having the lowest single target damage in PVE is not something I would have expected. Pretty sad.
Since most of the remainder play BM, it doesnât matter how bad MM or SV is. It probably doesnât even matter how good MM or SV is. Because BM is always going to be the best pet-based spec of the three, and you know how people say this class is fully a pet class. Donât you dare go without a pet.
SV is the el cheapo BM and MM is optimized to play without a pet.
For shorter, nobody cares about the two joke specs of this class. We should have given BM its own class and reassign MM and SV somewhere else.
Well Altani is adamant lone wolf needs to be buffed at least 5 to 10 percent.
/feigndeath
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Itâll come in handy. We can have âRangerâ a two-spec DPS class. Marksmanship Ranger, Survival Ranger. MM Ranger is ranged, SV Ranger is melee. And both can be petless with Lone Wolf. Or the class may not need to be anywhere near a pet class and just be like the combination of a Warrior, Rogue, and Shaman/Druid in fantasy(kinda like the letter new tauren hunters get about how their skills serve a versatile multirole in the tribe).
Because Beastmaster, sorry not sorry, need to stop throwing their weight around.
Yes, âbuffed by at least 5 to 10%â is definitely how âmade unnecessary/removed from the gameâ is spelled.
Or, get this⌠very novel idea: You donât randomly split the melee pet-focused spec into a totally separate class from the ranged pet-focused spec, and just actually balance BM so it doesnât remain (so greatly) the âRoughly same (or better) output at less risk/effortâ spec among not just Hunter but also the entire Ranged role.
Splitting Hunter into two classes doesnât suddenly free MM and SV from needing to be concerned with it. If thereâs some dire factor currently making people frown and ask âWhy arenât you playing BM?â the same question will turn to âWhy arenât you playing Hunter?â when you leave BM as its only spec and yeet SV and MM to exist under a new class title.
BM has been asking VERY OFTEN AND in magnitudes of firepower we canât repel regarding making the PET SPECS more meaningful, to actually improve and enhance the pets. Thatâs been something Iâve seen enough. I can agree that the pet system has been on the slideâŚ
So while BM has been given a lot, they werenât given everything. Not just yet.
Just give BM their own class, and then the Beastmaster class devs can then work on Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning specs. Because this would make the vast majority of current Hunters very happy.
The reason why I say this is twofold: thereâs enough political capital to make this happen and thereâs too little political capital to advance/progress MM and SV.
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I play all three specs and refuse to main to just one. The class is my main. I wouldnât appreciate needing to level and gear an entirely different character just so I can continue playing the way I have since TBC, when I first started playing hunter. Of course, I say that but I do have like 6 or 7 hunter alts.
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That would literally do the opposite of what Hunters, BM or otherwise, have been asking for, whatever âmagnitudes of [political] firepowerâ BM Hunters may hold.
There is not âenough political capitalâ to split BM into 3 specs and throw MM and SV out of Hunter. Nor are there sufficient prospects for/from doing so. No one has asked for that, only for the ability to choose pet skills and passives for oneself rather than being stuck with only a few species at most that are optimal for each category of content.
Nor would SV and MM lack for âpolitical capitalâ if their gameplay (especially the latterâs) so often neglected (left to/with jank systems) in the first place. (But hereâs the kicker: BM hasnât fared any better in that regard unless saddled with actual dead-on-arrival talents; all three see gameplay fixes only when undeniably fractured in some way.)
Your request is just bizarre. Youâve yet to provide even the slightest suggestion for why forever precluding Beast Training or pet choice from both Hunter and this theoretical new class, in favor of dividing BM into 3 separate trees accordingly, would improve the thematic breadth or consequent attraction available to BM, or how MM and SV would be in any way improved by having even the option of pets mostly or wholly ripped away from them.
BM is currently an outlier, with all due balancing issues that comes with it, but dividing it three ways and punting MM and SV to Narnia does not in any way solve that. Thereâs no good outcome likely from what youâre suggesting here except, at best, things that could be managed even without these bizarre changes (increased optionality in/for BM).
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So itâs a passive-aggressive strategy? âNo, no, we didnât say that!â except they implied or hinted at it quite so strongly in their ways. It would not be the first time Blizzard got this treatment from the community, so itâs legit.
I think there is, but if youâre right, thatâs too bad. Youâre basically telling me that for MM and SV, thereâs no way out except a âcareer changeâ or âretirementâ. Whether Iâm right or wrong, it follows that the only salvation MM and SV will get is to quite literally get out from underneath the BM community.
Itâs been six yearsâŚsix years of screw-all regarding both MM and SV. SV continues to suffer a ranged vs. melee identity crisis to this day and MM had this pygmy RSV, oneshot cheese thing. The only spec that NEVER did badly, not for long at that, was BM.
Why stop there? Why not keep EXPANDING on pet abilities, pet families, pet specs, etc.? Thereâs a lot of potential class dev resource pooling that can go to a dedicated Beastmaster class which is STILL going to be popular, just like Evokers, DHs, DKs, etc⌠Who WOULDNâT ask for that?
Textbook answer: itâs already there. Thatâs what most Hunters already main. Whatâs better than gold is more gold. Itâs what we been seeing in BM threads for years now.
Nothing else has worked.
Then at least you can know thereâs not going to be a good outcome maintaining the status quo for TWW-Midnight-TLT. We already now have not 20/20, but actually 20/15 hindsight vision. But maybe Retail will come to an end by that, and it wonât matter anyway(and then it all starts over with Classic Legion).
But even for two expansions Iâd like to see MM and SV jump this ship. Just FOR ONCE OR TWICE, Iâd like to see those two specs dominate without BM QQ.
The short: six years of riding with BM spec has done both MM and SV NO FAVORS in bolstering the ranks. You take it my idea is a bad and bizarre one when I know nothing is worse than the six years wasted in dev heck. Lone Wolf in WoD and SV turning melee set the precedent. BM got hog greedy, and MM and SV were lucky to get what they got. Blizz should have just kept indulging the pig even more; it was a mistake to divide resources and attention across the specs, to try and make all 3 happy under the same roof.
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my lord its jackalswind pt2
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Not even close. Iâm telling you that specs neednât be balanced only against the others of the same class, but rather also specs of similar attractors and/or features even among other classes.
If you solely put MM and SV on a separate class from BM, as you suggested, youâd just further reduce the populations of MM and SV, because why would someone play Ranger (MM and SV) so long as Hunter (BM) provides equal or greater output for most players in most situations at lower risk or effort?
If/when BMâs balance is a problem, you have to balance BM regardless of whether itâs in the same class or a not. All that removing MM and SV from Hunter would accomplish is to ensure that those who prefer the ease of theme of BM do not swap even when MM or SV finally has a unique advantage⌠because they canât except by rerolling.
typing this all in my handy-dandy Plain English translator
Hmm, it says, âPlay the spec thatâs strongest in the class if youâre going to play the class.â
Oh, and BM has been the strongest forever, with some âburpsâ of being weaker. Well, I guess MM and SV will continue to suck.
You, I, we, donât really know that for sure because itâs never been tried. Thatâs like going against a lawyerâs advice to declare bankruptcy despite that your enterprise has been losing money year after year, on some pretense that will turn record profits and be solvent on its debts and liabilities.
Meanwhile, without white knighting or any form of acquisition or merging MM and SV are futureless, and this is assuming Retail will go on after The Last Titan. HOWEVER, Classic Cata is this August I heard, and we would be on our way towards Classic Legion 
.
But then thereâs SEASON OF DISCOVERY which has the VERY POTENTIAL to expand beyond Vanilla. So MM and SV no doubt HAS A FUTURE in Classic+. But Retail?
Whoâs even going to be playing Retail in the days ahead? More people are already playing SoD, Era, or Hardcore even right now and the numbers are expected to grow.
Thatâs going out-of-house. I know you kept mentioning it, but I wasnât concerned about which of the 3 did better for the role vs. the entire plethora of non-Hunter DPS specs. This is about BM having 270-vote style majority power in WHATEVER happens to this entire class.
And welcome to Democracy where having the majority is the most important thing to win.
I would rather have that. At least that means MM and SV gets to keep said unique advantages with new and fresh class dev design and management, and a new dedicated class community. Every time MM and SV outshined BM, it was nipped in the bud.
Again, no. Specs compete with those of other classes, too, not just their own.
Your âsolutionâ therefore solves nothing. Your kicking SV and MM to a new class just means that BM mains cannot even swap over to SV or MM when the latter do something better.
This is already as simple an explanation as can be given, Isto.
Youâre not surprised I didnât reduce it even simpler? âPlay the meta.â Which I should say that there are TOO MANY Hunters in active existence for BM(any spec for that matter) to NOT BE in the meta.
Weâre talking about civil unrest in the event BM doesnât get the minimum representation.
Reroll? In todayâs Retail age, not the hardest thing to level and tool up a new character. And see, you agree with me. âWhen the latter do something betterâ. But theyâre not going to swap in that case because they DONâT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.
They want it both ways: for BM to be gud and exactly the very class/spec they want to play. If anyone likes BM, thatâs fine: be BM. Thatâs wunderbar. Iâm not trying to take anything anyway from that spec. And thereâs a way you can get more of what you want. This can be a win/win.
So I say screw it all, Altani: [letâs] move out of the BM-owned Hunter house. They can even keep the name âHunterâ if they want that too. I say, âCome on, letâs go, MM/SV. Pack your bags.â We can always maintain a second toon, so many of us do anyway, and usually Retail is alt-friendly.
Weâre already doing better with SoD Runes. We donât need to see the rest of Retail with BM spec as is. Not to mention it can be another mail-wearing ranged martial class that could even BOAST of new abilities. This needs to gain traction in Irving, CA.
making a âbeast masterâ class is an absolutely hilarious solution to a non existent problem. do we need an âafflictionâ class as thatâs an outlier spec? thereâs truly no reason to suggest this or even think itsâ a good idea.
specs on a class do not compete with each other for dev attention. there is no âbeast masteryâ lobby on the hunter class stealing away work or anything on the other two specs. this is very readily apparent as just this last patch (10.2) survival got changes.
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So youâre arguing to keep MM and SV in the gutter, because thatâs what youâre doing in denying the problem.
In that case, I donât want to talk to you anymore about it. Youâre just making things worse for non-BM Hunters. Obviously Iâm not a BM main so thatâs why I say as I do. But youâre pretty much already making Hunter a one-spec class, so why not go the second mile?
For Affliction spec, talk to the Warlocks, talk with the Aff mains and get their take. They donât seem to have the same problem. I remember Destro hogging up a lot of the glory, but itâs nice that Demo shining like it never has. But I donât know. That just depends on what Blizzard wants to do with that class and whether the locks agree with it. I havenât checked out their hero classes yet.
nobody is being kept in the gutter. this is an irrational response. just weeks ago SV got an aura buff. you are not paying attention
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Thatâs irrational denial. And thatâs fine, my dude: we donât need to keep conversing. If I had it my way, youâd be fine and dandy in another class you already enjoy playing and enjoy even more.
Iâm not going to even ask you how we even got a SV buff, or any non-BM buff. As long as BM get theirs first, itâs possible. But not before BM is okay FIRST.
SV no longer needs to be chattel to BM, and neither MM for that matter. *I will stand on this: SV and MM have GREAT DESTINIES that can be realized but not in the same boat as BM Hunter. And though they be few, such as Bicmex and Co., SVs and MMs of Bicmexâs caliber have done AMAZING THINGS with these specs despite Hunter being the one-man show in BMâs favor.
But if youâre stubborn, by all means be the good little house servant the BMs want you to be. Thereâs a good lad.