I don’t know about that but
godspeed 
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Maybe it’s better to say that it’s so much easier to stay alive in PvP. Like I thought my MM with 35% increased movement speed was gross until I hopped on BM.
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Ah PvP.
MM is good if you encounter a dummy that’s bad at shutting down your burst. It definitely lacks in the “staying alive” department, though.
It’s not. Nor is it even close.
In Sepulchre ST, Destro would spend ~79% of its time in immobile casts even with Sepulchre T2 causing many an instant Chaos Bolt.
Marksman, again, spends just ~18% of its time in immobile casts.
Or, if you’d rather look at the inverse, mobility, MM can be mobile for upwards of 72% of the time, while Destro could move during cast uptime only 21% of the time even with a significant borrowed power affecting it.
- That power’s value also has not been met via the DF talent trees, meaning Destro will now be even less able to maintain uptime while moving.
Destro is not “tied with” MM. They’re night and day, and in MM’s favor.
MM also trumps the majority of casters’ portion of GCDs/uptime that can be spent moving without damage loss by a similarly significant portion (even if, yes, Destro is the iconic turret).
MM has issues, but portion of its time spent immobile (less than a 5th unless using Calling the Shots) is not among them.
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I think it’s important to consider what percentage of damage is tied to immobility, not just how many GCD’s are tied to immobility. Aimed shot and related synergies/procs are huge. If you can’t get Aimed off, you’re sunk.
Spending time healing everybody, I respectfully disagree. MM are the game’s primary immobile turrets I have to /rescue out of bad (and oh man do they flip out at the rescue ability). They just won’t move on their own. Such is their desperation to get off Aimed Shot.
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There are very few situations where we genuinely can’t get an Aimed Shot cast off before reaching 2 charges.
Yes, some DPS is lost if you start casting and have to cancel it, but even this is manageable. It’s also something that applies to every other ranged DPS except BM.
I think it’s fine for MM to have a mobility compromise as long as it has a damage profile that allows it to be useful in plenty of situations. In fact that’s ideal. Some people genuinely do want a Hunter option that’s less about the mobility and more about the big hitters just like a caster and that’s been the aim of MM since Cataclysm.
Having said all this: the critical factor is Aimed Shot having 2 charges and a moderate cooldown so you don’t have to cast it all the time. I don’t like how Trueshot essentially makes us immobile because we’re casting Aimed Shot nonstop in its duration. They should seriously consider some sort of mobility bonus to Trueshot. Maybe making Aimed Shot mobile during Trueshot’s duration is OP, but seeing what other classes are getting this expansion I don’t think so. I also really hated the Sepulcher tier bonus for MM because it turned it into an Aimed Shot turret.
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This. And it also essentially axes over its duration an otherwise pivotal mechanic, Precise Shots. It’s fine for using those to be non-optimal during the CD, but they shouldn’t be as punishing to use as they presently are.
It’s kind of funny how much better the old Rapid Fire CD would be for MM than modern Trueshot, especially if the Trueshot components were just the icing on the cake instead of the core.
Something like…
Trueshot
2 min cooldownIncreases Haste by 25% while increasing Focus generation and the cast and cooling speeds of your ranged attacks by a further 25%. Lasts 15 seconds.
…And that’s it. Voila, without Aimed Shot being two thirds or more of your time spent in Trueshot, Trueshot is naturally more mobile / less movement-restrictive.
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Nope. Just false. Also, more short casts is much better than fevwer longer casts for mobility, so even if that were true, MM is still the “second” least mobile.
Can you cite data for this, or is this anecdotal evidence?
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It’s objectively true that nearly every caster spends a larger portion of their uptime in immobile casts than does MM. Upcoming buffs to Calling the Shots may adjust that later, but for now one need only look right at warcraftlogs and see for themselves what portion of time is spent under a castbar.
Though more complicated than what you present here in that no-context ultimatum, generally agreed… which is why I’ve been pushing for a slightly shorter baseline cast time on Aimed Shot (even if that means less effect from Streamline).
That said, we can already get Aimed Shot down to a 1.61-second cast at 0 Haste just through procs (much like how Chaos Bolt almost never uses its base 3-second cast time). With Surging Shot procs, we can fall to as low as 13.4% of our time spent in immobile casts between Trueshot windows.
The problem, again, is simply that
- so much of Aimed Shot’s normal feasibility relies on shots that are themselves reliant on procs, and
- Trueshot damn near roots us.
These aren’t problems with overall mobility; they’re problems with either “perfect storm” / repeated bad luck problems and with our burst CD.
Which leads us back to:
- Reduce Aimed Shot’s cast time slightly, even if this means slightly decreasing its cooldown and damage to retain the same overall portion of damage and mobility, and
- Rework Trueshot such that it doesn’t overemphasize Aimed Shot. Example:
“Aimed shot is the problem” is truly the worst MM hunter take.
I’ve seen pretty fried takes so I’m hesitant to give it the crown, but it’s up there.
If you can’t cope with one of your spells (that has a decent chance to proc and be instant cast) requiring you plant your feet, it’s time to reroll BM or melee. Plenty of ranged are fine with this or worse.
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And now he’s in another thread saying it’s a great thing DT is being removed.
Shame. I like his comments on SV. But it seems he is incapable of coming up with a good opinion about Marksmanship.
Sorry, what a ridiculous take. Blizzard designed a crap healing class and somehow that’s ranged’s fault? The only decent thing about Evokers is that the prevalence of them everywhere makes it more likely that I’ll get invited to groups because of loot sharing. I otherwise can’t stand running with them for the very attitude in this post. There are THIRTEEN classes in this game. The game is not designed around ONE of them, especially the last one to be created. But please, act more entitled!
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Oh jeese in pvp if you dont hug a healer you dont get healed. Did the looking for group timers get shorter for dps? Do we have an over abundance of tanks and healers now?
We have 2 problems here that arnt being addressed
Evokers are a bursty spell caster will a ranged nerf so play differnt then other casters.
2 of hunter specs are long ranged dps that can move while doing most there damage and can avoid dangers by moving out the way most there kit is moving out of danger and not getting hit the almost no sustain compared to other dps so a healer has to work overtime with them mind you other classes can attack from 40yrds and lack this issue unless the healer is terrible.
And hunters have always been a issue for healers more so when mana management was an issue
A Short ranged healer having to watch hunters move out of healing distance constantly because is just hardmode for both and hunter dosnt have much it can do besides run towards the healer because they can easily use up their heals and be left on long CD.
So do we make Evokers 40yrd casters or do we fix hunter squishyness?
I say fix hunter squishyness. Give us type of regeneration and buff wilderness medicine and lower some CD.
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Hunters do need better defensives, but Evoker range being 30 yards was an abomination of a decision that should absolutely be reversed. Give them a 40 yard range like every other healer in the game.
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Maybe lets fix hunters maybe give them a new raid buff where they give everyone 5%-10% leech that lasts 30min and we will see if its still an issue. Of hunters not being invited and keeping hunters alive. Id be poetic if hunters helped keep the party alive thru raid buff and were less squishy.
Honestly i would like to see BW be a MEANINGFUL cooldown again, its now just a a button we click after a few barbed shots. Seeing a big red animal used to mean something in the game now its just par for the course. BM needs legitimate cooldowns, steady DPS is great but burst is needed sometimes.
They have nerfed pets into the ground, there was a time where a pet could tank a heroic dungeons at current content when there was no such thing as a mythic. Pets are now treated as disposable, not meaningful.
I have liked BM since patch 2.0, but now so much of our damage is based on the pets we are at disadvantages with some mechanics that buff the hunter but its not transfered to the pet.
Bottom line is hunters have been “left out” for about a decade now. The mobility arms race has left hunters behind, it used to be impossible to catch a hunter, not even a paly can run down a hunter for the most part. We have jokes for defensives, and self healing that is laughable by the standards of ANY OTHER CLASS, even rogues have more self healing.
Hunters are still one of the most played classes in the game yet get neglected as if no-one plays them. Bring back MOP stampede and make all pet attack at 100% damage USING family abilities and following stomp and KC for 25 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown. Now that sounds like overkill but in reality other classes have out put in the same realm on their cooldowns.
Same here. But i did jump in a 2 with a group of our raiders. Didnt change talents or gear… cause i have no pve gear… i was keeping up during the boss fights and a little shocked about it.
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Leech is hilariously not an effective defensive stat for 2/3 hunter specs. Both BM and to a lesser extent SV benefit far less than other classes from it.
And sadly enough with the fix to mend pet it’s not even useful as maintenance healing, so now ferocity pets leech is pretty much entirely for itself.
Now you could fix this quite easily by adding a passive that lets pet damage heal the hunter and hunter damage heal the pet, providing basic maintenance healing for both.
I really wish they’d look at how well warlocks function and copy some of those ideas for hunters, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel and leaving hunters limping along.
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