"Hunter worst class in game"

Classes Hunter
61

Unless Kahpit is trolling, I have to imagine she just means the pet-dependent passive, Predator’s Thirst — a leech buff from our pets?

That said, I don’t see how even 9% of our effective damage healing us (MM w/o LW or maybe Survival, as even the 15% on BM falls short due to the portion of their damage that comes from and therefore just heals their pet) would offset our shortage of defensive value even among low-end content, since the value of self-sustain is less about the total HPS+APS on a chart than the opportunity costs for one’s healers (from additional uptime thus spent or abilities that’d need to be left in reserve).

62

The beta forums are gone now but for the record, I lobbied in that thread since the alpha for more defensives or healing. From bringing back the old spirit bond, to an updated mending bandages in the class tree, etc.

It was very obvious that this was hunters biggest weakness. On top of that, it seemed like every other classes was getting their self healing buffed. I mainly pvp but the issue is still there in PVE. Even some world quests were a little challenging on the beta due to the onslaught of mobs and not many options for healing, whereas some specs could just plow through it no problem.

I ended up having to ditch masters call and roll with a tenacity pet for the heal fortitude of the bear gives.

How hard would a talent rework have been to give us a more reliable heal. “Mending bandages” 30s cd. “Heal XX% over 6 seconds”, maybe branching off of the mend pet talent. I tried to get something like that but it seems that the devs decided against it.

4 Likes
63

What is the title of the thread?

64

I don’t think they are trolling.

I’m going to compare a hunter’s realistic defensive toolkit with an outlaw rogue’s. I know this comparison is a bit of apples to oranges with it being a pretty well-off melee class, but I’ve been playing it extensively since release. I’ll also compare to demonology warlock as a fellow ranged class with pets.

Rogue:
Crimson vial. 25% of maximum health over 4 seconds. 30 second CD.
Feint. 40% area-of-effect damage reduction. 15 second CD.
Soothing darkness. 30% of maximum health over 6 seconds after vanish/Shadow Dance. 1 and 2 minute CDs respectively.
Cloak of Shadows. Removes all harmful spell effects and provides 5 seconds immunity (can either be used as a proactive or reactive immune.) Does not pacify. 2 min CD.
I’m not running it currently, but rogues can also talent into Recuperator, which gives you 1% of maximum health per 2 seconds while S&D is active, which should be close to 100% of time spent in combat.
They also have cheat death on a 6? minute cooldown.

Warlock:
Soul leech. Single target damage grants a 3% absorb shield up to 15% of maximum health (post-nerf). Passive
Mortal Coil. 20% of maximum health instantly. 45 second CD.
Demonic fortitude. 2% maximum health increase. Passive
Healthstones + Sweet Souls talent. Healthstones heal for an additional 10% and any raid or party member using a healthstone also heals YOU for that amount. Semi-passive
Lifeblood. After using a healthstone, gain 15% leech for 20 seconds. Semi-passive
Soul link. 10% of all damage is taken by your pet instead of you. Passive
Fel synergy. Soul leech also heals you for 25% of the absorption it grants. Passive
Fel armor. When soul leech absorbs damage, 10% is absorbed and spread over 5 sec (not dissimilar from stagger). 3% damage reduction. Passive
Dark pact. Sacrifices 20% of your maximum health for an absorb shield equal to 200% of that 20% and then some. 1 min CD.
Demonic embrace. 10% maximum health increase. Passive.
Unending resolve. 25% damage reduction and interrupt, silence, pushback immunity. 2.5 minute CD. Can talent into CDR.
They can also soulstone themselves.

Hunter:
Exhilaration. 30% of maximum health instantly. 2 minute CD, can be talented into CDR
Hunter’s avoidance. 6% area-of-effect damage reduction. Passive.
Survival of the Fittest. 40% damage reduction. 2.5 minute CD. Can talent into CDR or further 20% DR.
Fortitude of the Bear (BM/Surv only in practice). 25% maximum health instantly and 20% maximum health increase. 2 minute cooldown.
Turtle. Deflects all attacks and provides 30% damage reduction for 8 seconds. PACIFIES. Must be used proactively. 3 minute CD, can be talented into CDR.
Endurance training. 5% maximum health increase when running a tenacity pet. Can talent into a further 2% if BM.
Predator’s thirst. 5% leech. Only survival benefits fully from this, as MM rarely runs a pet and the leech from pet damage does not benefit the hunter. Fortitude of the bear and 5% maximum health from tenacity pets makes this less desirable for both BM and surv.

I’m probably missing some because I was losing track of everything at a warlocks’ disposal.

I know that this is comparing a notoriously squishy class to 2 that are pretty known for their tankiness (especially Warlock), but they also bring good damage (Demonology for Warlock in this case) on top of absurd survivability. The creators of the tier list are heavily weighing personal survivability when making their decision for the tier list, and with hunters the way they are now they simply don’t meet that criteria on top of damage being okay at best, even after the MM buffs. Other classes are having their cake and eating it too, hunters got to watch everyone else enjoy their cake after being served crumbs. I would make peace with being squishy if our damage and utility compensated, or with poor damage if our defensives and utility compensated, but we have middling damage and utility with a sad defensive toolkit.

Again, do I think hunter is the worst class in the game? No clue. Do I have very personal problems with the way it has been handled for a while and now going into Dragonflight? yes. It was a bit broad to say in the game for an M+ tier list, but I can pretty confidently say that hunter is in a very rough spot design-wise for M+ in Dragonflight, simply because hunter is going in with a net loss while other classes are going in with a net gain.

5 Likes
65

Tin foil hat moment says Blizzard is still trying to siphon some of the large hunter population into the new expansion’s class.
Or a Blizzard employee’s ex really liked the hunter class.
Or space alien lizards are reminded of some dark times.

That was fun.

5 Likes
66

Hunter has a lot of cc, and even though that tool kit might not be as numerous as others, it’s still really damn strong. So many traps, binding shot, intimidation… etc. Your range and damage nutty + your exhiliration can be used a few times if you know how to stall long enough. Having stealth too is definitely a plus.

In pve, that’s another story. I wish the talent to reduce trueshot cd would give something like 5-10 secs for it to be truly good. I don’t get the oomph moments too often and the damage without it isn’t that good imo.

67

Our population is inflated by the fact that hunter is the solo, open-world questing class, especially BM. That chunk of hunters won’t be dissuaded by an M+ tier list or lack of defensives, they’ll be ferried in because they want to try the new class. The hunters who play it for competitive content are either going to stick it through or reroll to greener pastures (and Evoker isn’t super high on the reroll list.)

Yep, in M+ our utility is middling and we have to cycle what few defensives we have very methodically for the chance to live in high keys.

68

What’s bad is we literally have that… as a PVP talent.

And also apparently Survival only, but I’d (as someone who likes Survival more than the other two), be fine with it being moved to the General Tree so all Hunters could use it.

2 Likes
69

Yea I know, I was hoping when they announced a rework of pvp talents they would open that up to BM and MM and put it on the class tree.

1 Like
70

nods

Same, they did for a bunch of other classes (Frost DK got that one spell that jumps between targets and slows them), Hunter Bandages would have been awesome.

Yes I’m still salty Blizz shoved bandages into Tailoring.

71

Ever heard of context? Notice how it’s in quotation marks? Maybe it’s a direct quote from a video talking about high end M+? You may be like the 2nd or 3rd dumbest person Iv ever encountered on these forums.

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72

Just highlighting the BS nature of this whole argument. MM will prove to be quite strong in M+ I don’t think you should take a couple of randos word for it when they haven’t even tested it since the middle of beta.

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73

I get blasted in these M0’s I try my best to hold on my TWO defensives to space them out to somewhat help healers. I just feel like a burden most the time.

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74

I remember you and many others advocating for our self healing and defensives numerous times over the weeks and months. Especially during beta, but all of us who were paying attention called this a while ago.

Not only in the beta but in many other posts. You beta testers did a damn good job of telling the devs what needed to be fixed or reworked but it fell on deaf ears. Plus if we pick up all those defenses in the top to mid part of the hunter tree. You dont have much if any left over for the dps talents. Which is basically the only thing we do now.

And traps and other ground targeting abilities are sometimes very difficult to use, therefore unreliable.

Its just funny to me that hunters being in a bad place is new info to some players or at least they act like it is. They must have not been paying attention during thr development phase.

2 Likes
75

LMAO now that was not only funny but could be entirely true!

Would I like better defensives… yeap

Will they stop me from timing +20 keys, nope

If Blizzard would grant me one thing to be better at +20 keys, I would ask for BM AoE damage to be the best in game. The time savings from killing trash faster would make those keys much easier.

1 Like
76

You are the personification of a facepalm. It will not prove strong without changes. It will however prove adequate for 95% of players and you’re are definitely confusing the two or are just trolling at this point. Simple fact is pushing top content as a hunter automatically puts you at a disadvantage.

1 Like
77

Maybe for you it does.

78

B- at best

79

I think MM can do well in M+, but there’s also specs that can do what it does, but better.
I’ll say full stop our situation was a lot worse when BM was the strongest of the 3.

In my list I’d rank MM and BM as B-tier with MM being above BM internally, then Survival as C tier since it doesn’t have a good damage profile for M+ (not saying it’s bad, it’s pretty good at what it does well.)

80

better than a D amirite guys!?

poor survival :cry: