Just like how forsaken obliterated the worgens and are twice homeless? No dude, the alliance and horde have to always team up or ask a powerful demi god like Medivh to solve their problems after picking with trolls while Blizzard just nerf them and do dirty. I though you would understand that position considering the Nelves got the same treatment recently
Literally the city is populated by Forsakens now and they run away at the moment the daughter of some political got captured
The elves and the humans maybe? Because they send you with urgency to fight this insurrection and only time the sister of Sylvanas team up with belves
It just a fort, not a city
Every force that have to team up with many races or need a giant power up from a titan
Nelves power up with the Well of Eternity, after that fell they never become a huge threat again and Azshara became the puppet of Nâzoth
Elves with human team up and even then, they got wiped out by the scourge some years later
Medivh help them and KT fought against a small tribe. Now talking about the KT how did Daelin and his forces performed when they fought against the same tribe again but allied with the horde? Thatâs right got sold out by Jaina and now he is a shame for his faction and country
A swarm of them, back in wc3 they were a huge threat and they still are in big numbers, just look how they decimated the survivors from both factions
They barely fight each other, where do you get this information?
Alliance and Horde together alone they never went against a troll faction and when the alliance did, they ran away when the main army arrived.
Actually it was the Argent Crusade that decided to kill most of them in order to not be taken by the scourge. A dick move but WoW is filled by them, just look how they experiment in Worgens
Are you sure you arenât talking about Boralus that got sacked by Ashvane until Jaina arrived? Besides nice job insulting the KT as some âdumb piratesâ seems like you know the lore as much as Pyromancer
Gâhuun, Crucible of the storm and most important they keep their cities and arenât homeless in the land of another nationlike certain furries
Darkspear did help in the last invasion with the horde. Back in the WotA they fought some demons that went south and summoned a barrier for their lands when the Sundering happened.
Besides I want you to have a look at this if you still think trolls havenât save the worldhttps://wow.gamepedia.com/Aqir_and_Troll_War
Are you still with this arenât you? Nelves never saved the war, the war of ancients was their fault with letting Azshara go freely to summon her demonic suggar daddy and they got help from every wild god and defender of Azerothlike the dragons . For making things worse they repeated the same history in the war of Sand with the Aqir.
Seriously where are you getting the 4(previously 6) ocassions? Because chump, trying to bait people is a bad thing
Trolls are part of the horde and Talanji lead the horde expedition in Uldir.
Honestly why are you out of sudden against trolls and non human races? Coming from a race that has been displaced TWICE should had make you less aggresive and less humble enough to recognize every race has their pros and cons.
well i never have seen the trolls as particulary strong, all what they have is just defeats and defeats. yes, i know that all races have this.
but i never understood the âtroll prideâ that, by example the zandalari has, their empire is a complete ruin and their got pretty much destroyed, first by zul forces and then by the alliance, they got K.O.
not just the zandalari, but all trolls in general.
the nelfs, in contrast, are actually strong, so in what exactly the trolls have been nerfed?
even if it is true that is populated by forsakens bros, if she had to use blight that means that they didnât surrender. defeated? yes. but how is that surrender?
and that is âscareâ to you? because to me because that they became a threat, and as such, is was dealt with quickly, like almost every single content patch.
and what are you based on? the ingame representantion? because the ingame representantion shows that is the city. every commander refers to it as a the âcityâ.
apart from alliance and horde, who?
Azshara anhilated them.
Not thanks to the trolls thats for sure.
Yes, the scourge, aka, not the trolls.
you said with pride and yet daelin did not had the support of the rest of the alliance. maybe it would have been a different story if the alliance actually supported him,but of course the horde would not exist now. or what, it doesnât count the same argument that âthey had to team upâ.well,they had to team up vs daelin.
they ran away after decimating their fleet sacking their city,killing their king, slaugthering their people and not losing anyone of real importance. isnât supposed to be sacred ? they could not even kill a gnome ÂĄA gnome! and left the zandalari KO. for the rest of the war.
Wow, not only the scourge killed but also even a small groups of paladins?
Hm, ashvane was trying to kill the leadership and take the city, jaina was already defending the city on proudmoore keep while the adventures kill the boss.
Ashvane didnât sacked anything at that point, their men were captured and their gold and ships confiscated. but you know this already.
read again please, i said âon their ownâ.
Didnât the horde saved them from gâhuun?
Crucible of the storm? what the hell are you even talking about.
a troll was there? when?
Pretty sure that sylvanas stolen the dagger and called it a day.
no troll involved.
Cool, what about the rest? oh right, nothing, again. being useless,as per usual.
wait, werenât they at that point, totally not horde?.
well i do know that all races have their pros and cons, but i only see cons when we are talking about trolls.
Can you give me one example of the trolls actually winning something for once? maybe i am ignorant in troll lore, but i am pretty sure that almost all their named characters got killed.
i think that they only have talanji and rokhan now.
as for other races, i feel like the rest does have their good share of pros and cros, trolls only have cons.
Even their gods are exterminated.
but enough of that.
Yes. maybe, just in time for the trolls to actually do something that isnât being killed,sacked, destroyed or exterminated by something.
i would not be surprised if the vulpera or even the velfs have more screentime in the future.
odds are, that trolls are going to be forgotten,hopefully.
Thatâs because you have a bias against them and the nonsensical game mechanics, honestly only a few races of the alliance should be able to fight against an orc physically and the trolls are more bigger and stronger than then alongside the taurens. But since that doesnât fit your fantasy so likely youâre going to ignore what I said
Because they have still an army that could beat the alliance and the reason they ran away? Zul lost the fight despite counting
Meanwhile the alliance only does is lose after lose and wait for the writers to throw them the âI winâ button and still they lose in many fronts but the writers never adress that, for example Worgen population should be done by now
To start, the writers arenât letting them use the Loa to boost their soldiers, their arcanist are always gone, hunters with Dinosaurs are never present or even their physical strenght that should crush a humie with a small hit. All those details are forgotton to give another race a more even or adventage fight over them
Crowley surrender his troops and moved away from Silverpine, have you forgot that already?
For starter even Chronicles mention the horde and alliance couldnât spare troops of their already depleted armies, so a task force was sent to deal with the leaders. Simple logic just as how the Gilneans were deal in just 1 questline in a zone and they never become a problem again
Nobody mention Stromgarde as a city, at best both Danath and Turalyon mentions the walls of Stromgarde but nothing more.
Besides the Whiterbark trolls have establish a more stronger presence in the area
Azshara with the well of eternityand team ups of both factions which literally nobody can fight any of them alone. Have you forgot already how Gilneas got spanked hard for orcs and undead?
Are you mad because the trolls actually saved the world compared to your Gilneans? Besides dealing with Azshara is Nelf politic, nobody has to act as a policeman in the affairs of other nations
And guess who wasnât wiped by them? Amani trolls
Also guess who still has a capital city? A little clue here, those arenât Gilneans humies
Iâm sure Arthas and the elfies of QT would had supported DaelinâŚoh right they were gone by them. Please dude, stop pulling numbers and nations that stopped to exist out of nowhere to support your fiddly fantasy.
Daelin lose when he fought an even enemy even with the support of half of the men of Jaina and the horde recently being formed.
Literally the alliance only have 3 members and those were depleted by their own internal strife and yet you still pull numbers out of nowhere. Besides what an interesting manipulation of yours to not count the men of Jaina which werenât few and most of the KT army. Seems like the alliance canât win without bigger numbers of fodder
The city and most of the population still stands and despite of the destruction of the fleet for lore reasons(like the main army of the alliance in Nazjatar) exist and the rebuilding already started unlike the Gilneans that were killed and displaced by the forsaken TWICE by the same undead elf in less than 5 years.
This is a big lie and you know it. Jaina only appears at the last moment and the city was sacked by Pirates before she arrived, in fact part of the Tiragarde questline is cleaning out the city from Pirates in the ports, stop their assaults and steal their weaponry to demostrate Ashvane was helping them in their raids
I know you probably donât even watch horde content but onceagain Talanji and some of her guards with the PC ventures into Uldir to clean the raid and Volâjin first questline confirms she was the one that did most of the work while the PC help her (you can check it on Youtube)
Talanji sends us there to get back the artifacts we gave to Nâzoth and canon wise the Horde did it as we give it back the dagger to Sylvanas
Pretty sure in-game quests are canon and you just ignore them to fit your headcanon. Literally soyduin mention the horde champions were there for a reason after you finish crucible(which in your case it seems you never did it as well most of the alliance playerbase)
Ok buddy now you trespassed a line here. Gilneans only were there to pester Sylvanas and lose their second home as most of their population was likely killed in Teldrassil and never did anything important in the large picture
Volâjin and his tribe defied Garrosh and overthrone him while the alliance gave them the lands of Gilneas and Azshara
She works in cooperation with them since her rescue from Stormwind but the state of Zandalar was not even allied with the horde, that only happens later.
Same thing with the KT, Cyrus and Taelia are pro alliance but the state isnât in an formal union with the organization again, really just connect the dots, not something very complicated
Thatâs just your bias against the horde that everyone knows and I canât change that. For example I donât see any pro in the Gilneas besides of letting people do their RP/Fantasies about Furries
-Aqir wars
-Surviving the Sundering where many species were killed entirely
-Defeating Garrosh and his regime with the help of the horde.
Besides we have more named characters than Gilneas and with more screen time.
-Volâjin has a book and 2 good expansions run
-Zekhan has more screentime than Greymane
-Vanira does have more dialogues and a more memorable role than Greymane in the starting area
Also the most important victory in this game. They still keep their cities and capitals unlike the Gilneans that lose their home twice and live as refugee or the streets of Stormwind.
Only 3 loas from Zandalar were killed. However I find funny that from you, a player from a race that even with the curse of the werewolf tamed gets their hide kicked by the same dead elfie in less than 5 years even dare to speak about about âtrolls has cons only, they wik, humie strongâ
You should be feeling ashamed for saying such nonsense
Fixed for you. Probably some day the Gilneans do something other than follow their angry dog king that is the pet of Soyduin
Speaking from experience? I know your kin received even less screen time than Gnomes with the recent patch but unlike you, the Zandalaris are a popular race under the AR standars
The biggest group of Paladins and warrior from both factions that managed to defeat the Lich King. Meanwhile Gilneas was beaten again and again by forsaken and orcs.
I see a patron here, your projection of rage and frustation on the trolls is uncalled dude
Alright, lets say that the trolls or zandalari are the best warriors.
And yet we both know that no warrior stands a chance vs magic users.
That may be true during the cata mop era.
but as one wise man said âtimes changeâ.
as for worgen population, why do you think that their should be gone by now?
Hmm werenât their loa priests present during the BoD Raid?
as for hunters with dinosaurs, i remember seeing them in the alliance war campaign. and they were pretty much destroyed, same with that trex on boralus during the incursion.
i donât think they are forgotten as much as the nelfs.
he did the right choice. he saved lorna.
not so sure about that because i remember genn destroying a horde fleet and stopping the evil plans of their warchief, no problem, yo think?. or they winning on darkshore. or the war in general.
We can say the same about our troll bros.
Hm, yes, danath and turalyon refers to it as âthe noble city of stromgradeâ.
a weapon is just a weapon, isnât that correct?. so why would be wrong for azshara to use that has her power?.
as for gilneans, every race have defeats. hell i can say that all heroes have,but they also have victories. When we are talking about trolls, on their own, they cannot do much.
is not surprise that they got killed so much during their history.
Mad? i am mad for many things, âtrolls saving the worldâ isnât one of them because it never happened.
Maybe, but i am sure that the legion would be everyone politic.
i havenât seen the trolls save us from that, in fact, the last time was the humie/elfie city and dadghar, the demigod mage. with the noble tularyon.
Yes. because arthas and kelthudad pretty much ignored them, like the rest of the world. now lordaeron and quelthalas, those are actually threats.
thats fine, good things for patient people.
gilneas will rise again .
Exactly, most of the alliance of lordaeron was pretty much destroyed and it was a time that the scourge was causing trouble.
aka, not trolls.
Aye, and bear in mind that she was trying to spare the life of her men because further bloodshed would cause both sides big casualities while the threat of the scourge was increasing.
what daelin was doing was suicidal and would have been catastrophic for both sides if they fighted in full force. so, what happened was basically a strike team on him. i donât think that the armies actually clashed in full combat.
they do? because i havenât seen them, like at all only 2 or 3 ships on nazjatar.
okay what are we talking about, the siege of boralus or the start of the expansion?.
and those werenât horde raiders? basically the biggest horde champions?
Yes, i am aware of this, this is honestly insulting for voljin.
they only use him for talanji, just like with rasthakan.
basically poor voljin (the only troll that i actually respect) got killed by a random mob, and only shows up to say how great talanji is and basically saying that rastabro was an idiot.
That is honestly insulting.
okay, you are proud that the zandalari stolen and old god artifact and used to free Nâzoth?
and then you say that they did something good. thats like an extreme contradiction.
oh yes, to free nâzoth.
this is incorrect because i raid with another character. not sure what you even mean with âmost of the alliance playeraseâ sounds a little random but okay.
all gilneans evacuated from teldrassil.
and i call stormheim pretty important because we actually saved the world from the maniac called sylvanas and the genocidal warmongers of the horde.
yep, and they were being pretty much destroyed and needed the help from the alliance and other horde rebels.
alliance never abandoned their reclaim for gilneas, or lordaeron, or stromgrade.
As for azshara this is partially correct,tyrande says that she is okay with giving the trees of azshara, but she never mentioned the land.
but i donât think that particuar discussion is going nowhere.
funny i can say pretty much the same about your bias agaisnt the poor nelfies.
i donât deny having some sort of immense hatred for the horde, but i do reconogice that some of their races have their pros and cons.
Even the forsakens,with all their âblight stuffâ payed the consequences for their actions.
their city is destroyed, their leaders betrayed them and they even want to put a menethil to lead them.
i can appreciate that on a race, they do have their pros and cons.
well, i can safely say that i am not one of them.
is that a win, now? because if surviving counts as one then every race has that,in multiple instances.
everyone defeated garrosh, and if we talk about âracial victoriesâ, those who you hate the most, the elfies are the ones who have more victories.
The legion, the emerald nightmare, ragnaros. ect.
yes, and most of them are dead.
and he is dead. make no mistake, what they do to him was an atrocity and no character deserves the voljin treatment.
killed by an idiot mob just to promote sylvanas.
This is incorrect, in case you mean âscreentimeâ as the cinematics, then yes.
Now, ingame? Yeah no.
Who the hell is vanira?
aye, correct, that means you have nothing to recover, so you have no purpose or reason to exist in the game.
apart from a promise of vengeance that will never come.
i think that i would rather have a purpose as a race than nothing.
i never said that humies are strong, i said that trolls are weak.
Because Pro tip:They are.
as for getting kicked by the elfie, well,every villain, sooner or later dies. so, like i said before, good things comes for the patient .
not really, genn got a pretty big role this expansion. and we even see other gilneans.
i literally donât care about gameplay, so try another day.
here i am talking about lore, because is the story forum.
well, like i said before, every single race has their pros and cons.
they have done good and bad things, and most if not all payed the consequences for their actions.
but i feel like trolls are on the botton of the list.
maybe we have come to a point that we are just going in circles, so have a good day.
âMetzen discusses how he personally views orcs as noble, and loves the theme, but most people at Blizzard view their orcs as evil gankers, and bad asses. Not wishy washy, poetry readers.â
It seems those people are now in charge of the story. Unfortunately.
Honestly the weirdest thing to me has been how the Blood Elves are mainly represented with Blood Knights and Farstriders.
I donât mind the Nightborne but itâs weird that theyâve been characterised as the Hordeâs new magic friends. Theyâre amused at how amateurish our portal network is. What were the SinâDorei doing then, exactly? Theyâre portrayed as the magical race. They were mutating into arcane crack heads without it. But they never got around to setting up a proper portal network?
Itâd make sense if our only race with actual wizards was still the Forsaken- who just have a very different approach to workplace health and safety. But the SinâDorei? Their Blood Mages are depicted as some terrifying combo of Pyro Mage and Destro Lock - walking weapons of magical mass destruction. Their most experienced Magisters would have more experience than not just any Human, but any Human Kingdom.
If you came into WoW fresh and just played through I think you might never know the Belves were ever supposed to be some legendary wielders of magical might.
I feel like, much like BFA was seen by its writers as âa chance to write the faction war and the Horde finding itself, but betterâ, the Nightborne intrduction (or their whole story, really) was seen as âthe blood elf story, but better!â
And much like BfA, they ignored the lessons the faction really would have learned the last time this happened because the writers wanted to write the characterâs fresh reactions.
So they just ignored that the blood elves already existed, because they wanted to write the theme of âregal magical race wrinkles their nose at shamanistic Horde magicâ with no silly lore complications like âwait, we did exactly this alreadyâ.
Yeah that has kinda been a theme. The MagâHar are Orcs with more spikes and dakka. The Zandalari have more powerful dinosaurs and Loa. The Highmountain make a brief appearance but immediately show that kodos ainât that neat when youâve an army of bald eagles about their same size, and we already covered the Nightborne.
The Mechagnomes are obviously going to outclass the normal gnomes - they literally have mecha in the name. Though I am unsure how the Vulpera are going to upstage the Goblin - maybe they all turm out to be engineering geniuses who can make reaper drones out of dried hyena poop and bits of twig.
Iâm kinda glad the Forsaken donât have an allied race yet. Given the current trend theyâd probably be Liches or Vampire Lords - just demonstrably superior forms of undead.
I swear I think Vulpera are Gnomes affected by the Worgen curse. Though this is just tin-foil-hatting because Iâm pretty sure Scott Menville does the voice work for some of the Vulpera, same as he does for Prince Erazim.
Part of the problem is that mages tend to just be fodder, maybe more inconvenient at best. Outside of some vague notion of talent and knowledge, where mages go from simple fireballs and pitiful AOE to walking artillery and to demigod staus is mostly explained by how strong they want a named character to be for a given plot. Aethas got turned into a joke, and took BE mage representation down with him since Rommath rarely does anything.
Imagine how cool it wouldâve been if KaelâThas was still around or if Rommath was at least portrayed as, well anything really. Guyâs been around since '06 and I havenât seen him use a spell.
Imagine if we got a great wizardâs duel cinematic between Proudmoore and an established Blood Mage character. Frost and Arcane dueling against Fire and Fel. Instead we get First Arcanist Thalyssra being impressed with Proudmooreâs magic and asking her for tips.
This is a character who knew Azshara personally. She is a magician older than the human race. And sheâs impressed with Proudmooreâs magic. Youâd think Khadgar would be asking her for advice but here we are.
Before the introduction of Blood Elves, the Darkspear Trolls were the Hordesâ magical race. Forsaken had elements of it to, but focused a lot more on their pulp science/necromancy aspects.
But niches shift as you start adding in more characters into the narrative or else you get too much overlapping. And for reasons, they wanted to add more elves and pretty much every elf subraceâs schtick is magic.
Thatâs debatable. The Darkspearâs strange voodo mysticism remains a unique strength to the Horde. I just imagine the Lightforged staring on in bewilderment as giant floating juju masks tear their mech walkers to pieces.
But I think thatâs there niche. For more established, traditional wizardry the Horde really only had the undead who yes have more of a mad science vibe. The Belves were to be our magicians I figured. But they wound up as more fantasy Knights and discount Legolas sorts.
Which is just odd. No shade to the Blood Knights or Farstriders but how different are they really from Orc Farseers and Darkspear Shadowhunters? Wizards we did not have.
No, they werenât based on âestablished, traditional wizardryâ. But the Horde also didnât have established, traditional knights, or established traditional rangers, or established traditional priests, or established traditional guild thieves, etc.
One of the Hordeâs central themes was not being an established traditional fantasy experience. Lacking in your typical trappings, yet having analogues that filled the same role within the Horde. The Trolls were the magicians of the Horde.
But niches and roles change.
Darkspear Trolls maintained the portals. They studied magic in all its forms (Mage, Shaman, Priest). They drew upon knowledge dating back to the Zandalari empire, the oldest known civilization on Azeroth. Troll magic is repeatedly called out as being particularly ancient and powerful. Thatâs how elves even ended up even coming about. Trolls mucking around with powerful magic.
The Darkspear are called out as being among the less martial and more magically inclined of the Jungle troll tribes.
But as more and more elves have shown up in the narrative, especially in the Horde, this aspect has been taking a back seat. Now Blood elves/Nightborne are the magically advanced race, and trolls are losing that aspect of their characterization.
LOL =P itâs the biggest mystery. Iâm more inclined to say it wasnât a fluke based on his pre-Cata short story. It lines up with his Stonetalon portrayal very well. I made a big thread (first three posts there) on it once https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764746322#post-1
Alex Afrasiabi actually answered about what happened with Stonetalon:
Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there ...
He was.
He was? Tell us about that â why he had that shift.
Miscommunication.
So Stonetalon âŚ
Me.
You did Stonetalon?
I did Stonetalon.
I didnât stick to that path with Garrosh. I didnât â not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing â and that was my fault. Because when youâre doing, when youâre trying â because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.
You had so much to do.
We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So thereâs an interesting tidbit for you.
It was interesting though, in the aspect of seeing that glimmer of what he could have been.
Well he was good at the other way. He did well at that. He was a good killer and plunderer and murderer.
.
.