Humans are terribly characterized in this game

Lore Story Forum
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What I love about humans in other fantasy games is their ability to persevere in the face of overwhelming odds. My favorite has to be Warhammer Fantasy humans. They face an assortment of threats that feel dangerous because those humans have a chance of losing.

The WHF human is based on the real world human, the main human I’ll be describing is the human from the Empire. The Empire is based upon the 16th century Holy Roman Empire. They are not a centralize nation, they are more like a collection of semi-independent nations with their own cultures and armies that elect an emperor to lead the empire. While this emperor leads the empire the leaders of the other nations have enough autonomy to deny the emperor’s request. This description roughly parallels the description of the Alliance. Without the election part, obviously.

What’s so great about WHF humans is they’re weak. They are weaker compared to their enemies in both strength and magic. This means that one on one stand offs between them and an elf is completely one sided in favor of the elf. They can’t magically compete with an elf who’s been training since the dawn of time. They’re too green to compete with one in swordsmanship. However, humans in that game also have numbers, technology, and an iron will.

An Elf sends in 10 swordsmen? Humans will send in 100 spearmen, 50 handgunners, and 25 mounted knights. The Lizardmen has a rampaging T-rex? Don’t sent in the men, point all the cannons at it and fire! The warriors of chaos are slaughtering state troops without losing a man? Tell them to hold the line until reinforcements arrive. Their noble sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Humans at that game are heroic because even with all their handicaps conpared to other races they still fight. Their bravery comes from them knowing the odds are against their favor, but they still fight because they must. If they die then they know their sacrifice held the line. They died standing.

Compare this to WoW humans where they are described as heroic in a harsh world. Azeroth is not a harsh world. It’s easy mode since most of enemies that humans have faced are physically weaker than them, stupider, less magically and technologically inclined, or have less numbers. How heroic is it knowing that a small group of humans can just waltz into a troll camp, genocode the entire tribe, and come out unscathed because the trolls are so inferior as a race compared to humans? Not very heroic since the outcome is obvious. How about a story of elven prejudice, but not really because we know humans are just superior even if the elves say othereise. NATHANOS!

Humans of WoW are not heroic. They maybe described as such when it comes to European thought and morality, but the game has not convinced me of their struggles or faults. There is no weakness to overcome.

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The HRE fell for a reason

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Lore wise you are wrong, in the Troll wars the Humans had to side with Elves to beat the Amani Trolls, alone humanity would have been destroyed. WoW may not showcase this well, but WC3 did, humanity was at poor odds vs the Scourge, yet Lordaeron’s troops still fought that battle because they had to try.

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lol true, if the humans are so strong, why do they need a alliance, why did stormwind fall, why did lorderan fall?

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WoW has ruined and gutted the story that was already flawed (but not yet past the pale).

This discussion is pointless. I won’t argue with you. Humans do suck just like how everything in the modern story sucks. It’s all stupid and none of it makes sense.

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Really? The Humans only sided with the Elves because they wanted to learn magic. Tit for tat.

The Troll Wars were anticlimactic in the humans side. It was lead the Trolls in a killing field, stand still until enough Trolls gathered, then cast AOE like one would on a mythic + on all the Trolls. It was so one sided that human knights broke rank and hunted Trolls like the British would hunt foxes.

Based Chad Manlet.

To protect the Night Elves obviously. Stormwind fell not because of superior Orcish tactics or martial ability but because Garona betrayed King Llane.

Lordaeron fell because the Scourge was being led by a human named Arthas, duh. And because Blizzard didn’t use the stupid trope of magic being able to fix everything at the time.

I argue that WC3 was the pinnacle of human characterization. Humans were fallible and grave decisions were made. It’s one of the reasons why Arthas is such a compelling character compared to Varian or Anduin. He did nothing wrong in Straholme.

Edited because forums won’t let me post twice before someone else.

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So … is this thread about how there isn’t enough Human Potential in this game? LOL, well can’t fault you for an original topic if nothing else. :smiley:

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If you’ve read my blogpost then you’d know it was about the opposite.

Humans potential is too OP and it diminishes their accomplishments and characterization because the other races are so inferior in comparison.

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Hmm … sorry bout that. Though tbh, I’m uncertain what accomplishments you want highlighted. Every race in this game gets their teeth kicked in. The Humans have several times as well. Hell, Human Potential was just a meme that took on a life of its own until BfA; where Blizz actually does seem to be shifting towards that gear.

The Troll races are just wrecked on every front. The Elven subspecies have all taken serious losses. The Gnomes, Goblins, Tauren, Draenei, Orcs, etc… are all in terrible shape. Hell, I think the only race that hasn’t been pushed to near extinction is the Dwarven Kingdoms. They may be irrelevant to most stories, but they sure as hell are in better shape that most PC races.

I think the only thing that really makes the Humans stand out is their relevance, SW being the main Alliance hub, and the power of their reps; which isn’t even that abnormal for an Alliance race. The NEs and Draenei also tend to pull a lot of focus, and have absurdly powerful characters. Yeah, that focus may not be “positive”, but they do get a lot of it.

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i doubt it, humans lost a lot especially in wc3.

Apart from kultiras, pretty much every single other human nation has been destroyed at least once.

and their people slaugthered.

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Actually Kul Tiras was destroyed once, or at least the uncanon version of Warcraft 2 had Kul Tiras being destroyed.

Actually the main reason was because Thoradin believe the elves when they told him they would attack the humans next once Quel’thalas fell.

He turned on his friends and allies. He slaughtered people regardless if they were doomed to die or not. He was everything antithetical to the Alliance who have always made the hard choice.

We had a Dragon burn a portion of Stormwind with no one actual able to do anything. The humans, along with everyone else, charged the Dark Portal, of Draenor and AU, not knowing how powerful the enemy truly was because they wanted to protect their people.

The way I see it, the humans are no more, nor less brave then any of the other playable characters. Hell, we all fight gods on a regular basis because we have no choice but to win.

You mean like the time the humans and every other Alliance race went to war against the Lich King, even know they might all end up raised into damnation?

Humans have always been phyiscally weak, they managed to go toe to toe with other races because 1) they managed to forge armor and be versatile. 2) and more importantly, they learned that having allies in Azeroth is one of the biggest advantages they can have, hence why they formed the Alliance.

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Its somewhat difficult to give the humans of Warcraft better characterisation since their traits are defined by the brutish strength that Horde originally had when the first Orcish Horde invaded Azeroth.

Now? Now many of those men are dead or overshadowed by demi-god mages like Jaina or the 4-d chess master-of-all-I-have-the-best-plan-on-azeroth-and-beyond Sylvanas. And whatever remains of the orcs pride or dignity either died with Garrosh or Saurfang.

The men of the Empire from WHF face far more insidious threats and enemies that will genuinely tear them to pieces once given the chance. Teldrassil burning might be horrific to some within the Horde but to the ratmen of the Skaven they would call that making room for home.

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And when the humans were just small tribes they beaten back the Trolls with relative ease. United humans would have prevailed, magic just made the victory faster and more spectacular.

Jaina and Uther did not know the Scourge like Arthas. Even if the argument was not everyone in Straholme was infected it gets thrown away because as soon as Arthas enters the city the citizens start turning.

Deathwing came as a surprise. Nothing can be done there as his rebirth came with the Cataclysm. Stormwind only had minor damge to it. Deathwings appearance was just recruitment.

I’ve read the Chronicles description of the Second War. Ogrim and his Orcs played tag your’re it while the humans virtually won every single land engagement they had with the Horde. This was also when the Orcs were supposedly empored by fel and given Blackrock weapons and armor. The Horde was not an impressice enemy.

Charging in the Dark Portal was not the dangerous part for the expedition. It was knowing they had to shut off the Dark Portal on Draenor’s side that had everyone think second thoughts. 30 years later the Alliance expedition is surviving well during BC. So much for the savage world of Outland.

There is nothing impressive about defeating an inferior opponent.

And this phony war against the Scourge was stacked in our favor because the LK wanted new generals. Had he taken it seriously then I might agree with you.

What physical weakness do humans have? Humans seem to overpower the larger races all the time. Take Taurajo for instance. It’s a hunting village whose main inhabitants are Tauren. A race that’s supposedly strong as Orcs. We know that’s BS because they couldn’t handle a bunch of ex-cons and a couple dwarves throwing fire crackers.

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Exactly this. The Human story in Warcraft is one of wish-fulfillment. This is not satisfying to anyone playing a human who wants a good story, nor is it satisfying to someone who made the mistake of picking an “inferior” race at the starting screen. Their story amounting to a side-character at best. Resorting to human ethnocentrism, aka the “humans are special” trope is a sign of inferior writing.

To date, I have yet to experience this feeling Blizzard characterizes as “faction pride.”

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Well when it comes to the brute strength of the Orcs then the humans already overpower them. I have not seen an instance where the Orcs are a scary enemy like Blizzard is trying to sell to me.

Only in the Warcraft movie was I convinced that the Alliance of Lordaeron was needed in response to the Horde threat. Reason that is because the Orcs were actually threatening. It also made Lothar more impressive because of his “fight smarter, not harder” mentality.

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They did have this back in the day if you read Tides of darkness it shows how the different factions fight to compensate.

However wouldn’t really work in the MMo space. I mean in order for humans to field the amount of troops we are talking about they would need all 7 kingdoms back and dominate the Eastern kingdoms.

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Its just what the selling point was back when Warcraft was still in its infantcy. Now they along with the other races are just sidelined in favour for the half dozen characters who get the spotlight.

It can be done better just Blizz isn’t interested in sinking the resources to do it. Story is a commodity not a pillar that Warcraft sells nowdays.

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By the way most enemies humans have faced have not been weaker or “stupider”. Trolls and Orcs are stronger than Humans. Undead are usually equal to or stronger than humans and have infinite stamina, they never get tired. Demons are stronger and more powerful magically than most humans. Gnolls may be stupid, but im pretty sure they are slightly stronger than humans. Ill give you a pass on Kobolds, they do seem stupid and weaker than humans.

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Well considering that Stormwind is always getting an influx of refugees then it wouldn’t be that hard for them to have the numbers. Higher population means more tax revenue, more taxes and a constant flow of angry recruits means a larger army.

Hell, we even reconquer Arathi Highlands for Stromgarde refugees, and the kingdom wasnt even part of the New Alliance. We already control most of the Eastern Kingdoms.

True, but story is one thing that people fondly remember. New Vegas was a decent game, but the story was amazing. It had some head turning retcons, but the overarching narrative was powerful.

The Witcher series had average gameplay, but a powerful story. Personally, I had more fun with Dark Soul’s gameplay, but Witcher 3’s story is what keeps it memorable. Dark Souls story is more forgettable in my opinion.

Years later everyone will forget Fallout 76, but New Vegas will always remain with them.

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I first noticed this trope when I was a very young child watching Star Trek and wondering why it was that the Borg could wipe out countless civilizations and all these other space races had unique advantages of their own that the Borg could assimilate and add to their own distinctiveness, but it was the nondescript Earth that the Borg always had a hard time with and the Humans that they could never seem to conquer.

I obviously wasn’t the only one to notice this:

I’ve always hated this trope. It always felt remarkably lazy to me. That Humans would just win because of their tenacious spirit/gumption/determination or other such self-confidence patting on their backs by their writers, because obviously what is most important is believing in themselves and never giving up.

As I grew up I came to enjoy anime, but then started seeing more and more anime with a generic protagonist that really didn’t do anything to deserve all the love and admiration they were getting, I came to realize what the Humans Are Special trope most obviously was and why I didn’t like it:

But for an entire western mindset that of course the human race would overcome all struggles and beat the odds (because that’s the escapist fantasy that the western mindset wants to tell itself about its own life), even when there’s no reason that they should.

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