Huge nerf to solo/outdoor gear progression in DF Season 1

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Partyrock-shadowstrike

This is eSports mindset.

The true esports mindset would be to have all gear/power be equalized, and have only skill and spec matter.

There being different levels of power is counter to wow being a pure competitive game

[Angelicus-faerlina]

And yet, you have color coded loot, and devs that worked on both projects. Both bled together too many ways to count. Sorry bud, they aren’t two wholly separate things.

[Nadetta-moon-guard]

Slay queen

/chars

[Partyrock-shadowstrike]

It is a scale. Going towards the esports side of things as a guiding principle in handing out power in an MMO is bad design, and less and less appealing to the larger MMO demographic.

eSports rewarding, as in the focus is on that, should be title based or just simply have a ladder.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

Because you can do LFR and get geared FAR,FAR,FAR faster! These devs are “Forcing” grouped content, and they should not be. There has always been a path to higher than LFR gear in the open world, and yes it takes a LONG time to get. Thats the point, you have to put in 5 times the time in the open world to get your upgrades, while the raiders, and M+ players get their gear withing the first couple weeks of raid release.

The time investment in gearing up in open world content is worth FAR more than the little chunks of time M+, and raid take per week, and we should be justly rewarded!

Thats the end of it, i am done with the snobs that pollute every thread that has to do with players that have the nerve not to play the game as they do

In the current format that it is, I actually disagree. Primarily because of how braindead and dry the open world is. (Saying this part for the record) “OMG WHY DOES EVERYTHING NEED TO BE MYTHIC DIFFUCULTY!”

That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that the open world experience is just bland and dry. I’d love to see more innovative ideas to come to the open world that could blossom into actual progression that doesn’t affect instanced content. If it remains the same way that it has been for multiple expansions, I see no reason why open world progression gear should go far at all.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

The devs experimented with a more D3-esque loot system in Legion and BFA. Items rained from the sky, and with random qualities. For a significant number of players, the change of the question from the classic: “did the item drop?”, to the Legion/BFA: “did the drop upgrade with the right upgrade?”, was not what they wanted the game to be.

[Angelicus-faerlina]

Legion was FAR FAR FAR FAR more popular than boredforages bfa and systemlands

The last two have gone SOO well for them. They made cross faction play after swearing they would never do it … because matchmaking was on the verge of breaking completely due to low players.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

And I’m going to postulate that it was more popular because of the amount/availability of content, combined with the class design.

In terms of baseline world power rewards, Legion was actually slightly lower than what we are getting in DF, and substantially lower than it was in SL.

@Angelicus-faerlina

They made cross faction play

@Angelicus-faerlina

because matchmaking

Ahh, you mean the LFD/LFR queues that are not cross faction enabled?

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Nadetta-moon-guard

That’s what’s so funny. It’s the ppl selling that want to keep making their gold or other non kosher ways prob.

There’s definitely a group of people on these forums that don’t want world content to give decent gear because they know it’ll mean less boosts to sell

[Angelicus-faerlina]

Bliz delt them a blow making mythic +20. yet the token remains relatively the same value, i’m guessing 120k post release. They will try to charge 2+ tokens, and it will blow up in their faces.

$40+ a week in tokens for gear … market will contract so fast you’ll probably hear the thunderclap.

[Partyrock-shadowstrike]

WoW is a game that has been ruined by taking itself too seriously. It should never have incorporated eSports dynamics. The current retail player base and the developers like to think of themselves as having a product above “roll on pvp server → no life it for max gear → pwn noobs all day”, but that’s what the game was built on. That’s what all MMOs have been built on. During the prime golden age of any MMO, you will find this dynamic.

While not everyone participates in such a way, having that variable encourages people to spend more time, so they can deal with the nonlifers. It’s an ecosystem that actually works. Why do you think PVP servers are the ones that turn into the zerg servers on classic?

WoW needs to get back to the basics. The best gear should only have a prerequisite of competence and then a system of higher time spent, higher reward. The old honor system was a great example.

You can still have eSports, but make it a ladder or title based system.

[Merpish-sargeras]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

The devs experimented with a more D3-esque loot system in Legion and BFA.

And people complained! They said “loot isn’t special anymore, I want to feel like I’ve earned my gear.”

And Blizzard agreed and made gearing in SL not nearly as much a giveaway, in fact it was WORSE in first few weeks of the expansion. Anyone remember how little loot was actually dropping from CN?

So now here we are with Blizzard having attempted to make people care more about the gear they have by making gear slightly less common of a drop, and people are once again angry.

[Partyrock-shadowstrike]

@Merpish-sargeras

And Blizzard agreed and made gearing in SL not nearly as much a giveaway, in fact it was WORSE in first few weeks of the expansion.

What if SL was just poorly implemented and it’s not actually the dynamic behind the motivation that made people uninterested?

[Angelicus-faerlina]

@Merpish-sargeras

And people complained! They said “loot isn’t special anymore, I want to feel like I’ve earned my gear.”

The TINY playerbase complained. Reference the above post if you are confused about TINY.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Angelicus-faerlina

The TINY playerbase complained.

@Angelicus-faerlina

Legion was FAR FAR FAR FAR more popular

So the far larger playerbase in legion was tiny?

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

I thought people in BfA were complaining about getting too much Azerite gear. I don’t think anyone was complaining about getting gear at the end of a dungeon or raid.

People on these forums that like to twist things

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Debbyfrowner-thrall

I thought people in BfA were complaining about getting too much Azerite gear.

Azerite gear had its problems, and probably over-shadowed some of the RNG gear complaints in BFA. The attempt to replace artifacts, tier, and legion legendaries with azerite gave it a lot to live up to, and it didn’t. It also made changing spec cost gold, and forced you to grind to be able to even use the effects on it. On top of that, many of the effects were just plain boring. “x spell damage increased by y”, or “casting a spell has a chance to give you x secondary for y seconds”.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Raiimir-stormrage

And everyone who’s run more than a single dungeon knows most of those complaints are entirely exaggerated and made up.

and those who have run multiple dungeons, and are not blinded into thinking what happens to them is the same that happens to everyone, know better then to just dismiss the complaints.

Are there those that exaggerate? sure, but to take the stance “it does not happen because it has not happened to me so it must be made up” is idiotic and likely a reason why a lot of players think others don’t know what they are talking about.

Maybe all that is needed is more empathy, or the ability to understand, or at least come across as being able to understand, where others are coming from. This does not mean you have to agree with them, that you feel their complaints are warranted, etc. I mean I can see where some come from, but I am one that if the complaint is based around content being too hard, I am just as likely to tell them to pick themselves up, get better to try again or just get right back in there…

If the goal of the complaints is sympathy, then they really should be left to wallow, if it is empathy, all that takes is listening and not being dismissive.

[Lucavitha-area-52]

Actually I’m using basic logic for how MMOs are designed to work: you work as part of a team to overcome greater challenges and aquire greater rewards.

If you as a player choose not to do so then that’s fine, but you can’t complain when endgame has less to offer you.

[Marla-westfall]

you need decent gear to do that efficiently - it isn’t any fun farming when you die every 5 minutes