Wow, I go to the land of dreams and BOOM! This thread blew up a wee bit lol.
1 Like
It would have been simpler if they just locked you out after so many successful runs per week.
2 Likes
Nothing is wrong with failure being possible, but how fun is it to fail then do a chore before you can pick your self up and try again?
Do the chores first and then do the attempts ?
Yeah I mean Iâm fine with saying âhey you can only do 3 successful runs a week, but the attempts are unlimited.â
That way you limit the turbo socket farming, and still give players the chance to actually improve. At the end of the day, it doesnât change my life if Jimmy Newplayer needs 450 attempts to get a 5 mask done. If he wants to put in that work, by all means.
2 Likes
This could have easily been done if a failed run refunded your currency and a successful spent it, even better if the item needed had charges that only decreased on successful runs.
1 Like
It is directly analogous. You offered an equivalency that is simply not equivalent, by offering players an option that you know they donât want, that misrepresents the argument.
Clearly it is not morally repugnant to the same degree, but the modality of argument is the same. Your answer to âwe want outdoor, solo content with equivalent gear progressionâ is âyou have the option to do dungeonsâ.
3 Likes
No, the friction was forced upon me, and I want to see it removed so that I have a reason to play WoW in Dragonflight.
Your blatant strawman argument is not helping your case.
There is a huge difference between doing world content to earn inferior upgrades over time and having max rewards appear on your character suddenly using a cheat code.
But as usual, the elitists consider any reward earned outside sweaty content âfreeâ or âdoing nothingâ, and the open world is ânot even contentâ.
By your standards, 99% of the games out there arenât even content and are rewarding players for doing nothing.
4 Likes
âForcedâ⌠No it wasnât. You had every chance to walk away from any friction. You responding to them and feeding into is not being forced into it. You participated in it equally.
By the elitist players and devs, no.
But the reality is that whatever people do in the latest content patch at max level is end-game, and way too many people were enjoying gear progression through world content alone for Ionâs liking.
WoW is an RPG, not an action game. It has much more depth than just moving and jumping. And RPGs almost always feature power growth as you defeat enemies.
3 Likes
If the elitists and developers did not consider open-world content a pillar of end-game content at any point in time, then it never was. There is no debate here.
The reality is that players can choose to do whatever they want, but it doesnât mean they can redefine what a pillar of end-game content is.
Take a game like Diablo or Path of Exile. You can level your character, do story mode, and finish the campaign.
At that point you can choose to do end-game content like Greater Rifts in Diablo and Maps in Path of Exile, or you can choose to go back and re-run old campaign content. Re-running old campaign content is not end-game just because you can choose to do it.
Welp, on the track to 2,000 post I see. Neat.
1 Like
The open world has enemies.
Enemies do damage and have health. Your character also does damage and has health. You win if you get the enemyâs health to zero first, but die if your health reaches zero.
The damage you do and the health you have is directly dependent upon your gear. Better gear gives you more damage and health.
More damage and health means that you can attack more enemies at once and kill them more quickly. This is fun.
Better gear means more fun.
3 Likes
Correct, and the open world content currently in WoW rewards better gear for participating.
1 Like
Torghast is dead because it didnât reward gear⌠I love Torghast but I play WoW for character building⌠I find game types that I enjoy AND reward me for the time spent so that I can build my character in some way IE: Strength, appearance or wealth⌠After legendaries Torghast was fun but not rewarding and because that is the primary focus it was actually more of a penalty to play Torghast rather than some other game mode that was rewardingâŚ
Torghast was fineâŚnot rewarding gear made it a waste of time which as goblins will tellâŚtime is money friend.
2 Likes
Which is why open-world content has gear progression relative to its difficulty. LFR equivalent gear is more than enough to do everything you just said and then some.
1 Like
Itâs inevitable that WoW starts to value the solo players time equally to Raiders/M+/Arena players thus finding a way for solo players to have their own progression system that is rewarding and challenging. Some classes will struggle with difficult solo content sure but there are ways to manage that issue specific to the content.
Many will say it wonât happen but it will. Many people donât have time or interest in grouping with others. I for instance love MMOâs but not for group cooperation. Iâm not super social in RL it doesnât mean I donât love living⌠Solo player content deserves just as much respect and attention as group player content.
3 Likes
The vast majority of solo-content players do not want âchallengingâ. They want to bum rush rares with 40+ players in the open world and get loot equivalent to Normal or Heroic Raiders.
Not having interest is one thing, but you canât say people donât have time. LFR takes like 30 minutes. PvP takes anywhere from 5-30 minutes, M+ takes 30 minutes. These âcasualsâ and âopen-worldersâ definitely have the time.
Itâs getting as much respect as it needs. Rewards and progression relative to itâs difficulty. Thatâs like saying LFR or Normal raiders should eventually get Mythic raid gear just for having the bosses on farm. Or M+ players getting 12/12 upgrades for running only +2s.
You obviously didnât play Legion or BfA. The open world was a pillar of endgame content and power progression beyond a mere âcatch-upâ, whether or not this was officially specified by the devs.
(Note: The devs did not officially state during the Legion/BfA era that the game only has three endgame pillars. So not even raiding, dungeons, and PvP were officially described as the three pillars. This happened for the first time during SL development.)
If the devs did not intend for open world content to be an endgame pillar during Legion/BfA, it would seem pretty odd for pre-existing world quests to be updated to competitive gear rewards each season, and for many patches to feature competitive new outdoor gearing systems.
Legion/BfA devs were desperate to get casual players out in the world again after WoD.
SL/DF devs are desperate to get casual players back into instanced group content.
Players donât care whether their endgame content is an official pillar or not, as long as they see value in continuing to play.
But the issue is not that devs intentionally excluded the open world from their new official SL definition of endgameâthe issue is that they nuked it to the point where it can no longer be an actual endgame.
5 Likes
Stop bringing up Legion and BFA lmao. Thatâs literally all you have as an argument that was already discussed. Just because it provided gear does not make it a pillar of end game content. You even said it yourself, no developer has called open-world content a pillar of end game in 18 years.
We also already discussed how Devs severely nerfed open-world gear in BFA in one of the patches directly after seeing how easy it was to get gear. This alone is proof against your claim.