I don’t think I have the patience or time to make some of the Horde posters here friendlier on the forums.
There’s been a lot of attacks on people voicing concerns, questions, or just responding in general. What you see as “complaints” could also be taken as some thoughtful input. People’s ideas and concerns should be considered, maybe even addressed.
For instance, let’s say I was brand new to Moon Guard, had never heard of any of the people who had posted here (most who play on it already probably haven’t anyways unless you’re in a community) and this was the first look at some of the Horde community? It doesn’t foster a welcoming environment where growth is needed too.
“I am seeing more Horde on Moon Guard than I used to. Is the population of Horde RPers increasing?”
That is what was asked. No one was asking about the “quality” of RP, how it worked, overall goals.
Someone from a different server was asking if there were more opportunities for RP on the Horde side.
This thread took a very strange turn from that.
This was not a trick question. This was not a trap. They just wanted to know - as I do, and others do - if there are more opportunities for RP Horde side.
I think maybe we should kind of keep that in mind? Having said that, and after reading this thread? I think maybe people are taking things out of context.
But by and large, I agree with this:
For those of you who are involved with Horde RP? I understand your frustration. People frequently say ‘Horde RP is dead’, when you’re involved in several RP storylines, maybe with different guilds, doing all sorts of things. It feels like it invalidates what you’re doing, and goes against what you’re seeing.
But I would suggest that a great deal of the responses in this thread are also invalidating what people who have not been able to get involved Horde RP are saying. I stopped counting the number of times I read “If you’re not involved in Horde RP, then what you say doesn’t matter.”
That’s…not just dismissive, it’s inaccurate. If someone said “Hey, how is the job market here?”, and people who had been looking for work said “It’s really hard to find a job, the opportunities aren’t as big as they are back home, and it feels like no one’s hiring”?
That is their actual experience based on what they have tried to do. That is real. So, when the people who do have jobs end up saying “It’s great, it’s easy for me to find more work. I work all the time. I don’t want to hear you have an opinion unless you actually work”, do you see how that comes off as a bit confrontational?
There have been some Horde RPers in this thread who have been very polite and diplomatic about it, and I do appreciate that. Saying things like “The focus of Horde RP is different”, or “Our organization and networking is like this”. That can help. That gives useful information.
But I have also seen far more Horde RPers with comments that essentially translate to “It’s better than what you’re doing.” Not “this is different”, but “this is better”.
It reads a lot like: Stupid Alliance, standing around like idiots in Stormwind with your lore-breaking erp stupid characters and go nowhere storylines and flakes and losers. You have a bunch of idiots with crap stories, even though you have it everyday. I have steak, you have gravel.
I have to imagine that is not how the Horde RP community really feels. But the comments in here - not all, but more than a few - give that vibe. It feels extremely unwelcoming. It feels like there’s this unspoken - and sometimes spoken - ‘We don’t really want you here, because we are better than you’.
I am not saying that is what you guys mean. I am telling you that it feels like that when I read some of these comments.
And for those of you Alliance RPers who are trying to get involved with Horde RP? I understand your frustration, too. I have also logged in to Orgrimmar and seen no one really there, and thought “…oh.” I have heard people keep saying “Horde RP is thriving” and then actively wonder exactly where all of these people are. I know what it feels like to just think you’re not welcome.
What I would suggest in this case is a bit of patience and understanding. Horde RP is working for the people who are participating in it, and they have put a lot of effort into creating a community. This includes storylines that many people have worked on, goals that they have worked on, etc.
It is not entirely fair to expect them to pivot on both their narrative arcs and their logistics for recruiting just because you show up. You must respect them, too. So, yes. It will probably take longer to get your feet wet than it would in Stormwind. Don’t look at it as “Stormwind RP, but red with more spikes”. That’s not fair to them. You don’t want to come across as that person saying ‘Can’t you idiots just do what we do, so I can have what I have but over here?’.
And for both sides? For God’s sakes, stop taking things so personally. Someone saying they have had a bad experience doesn’t mean they think you are the sole reason for the experience.
Just be fair, is all. Be realistic about situations, and respectful to each other.
The goal is for everyone to have fun, right? It’s not a contest?
I’m not comfortable with how much I’m agreeing with you, pretzel-boy.
Classic Thalassian elf side-eye, but extra practiced because Vanaelia
But this is, I think, a mixture of taking things a bit too personally, and not having been in the shoes of the people asking the questions in a while.
A lot of the comments from Horde RPers state that they’re involved in several projects, and have had a lot of success with things. Which I do not deny at all.
But that’s not necessarily great for growing or building a community. It’s great for maintaining it.
Actually, you know what I would recommend? I would recommend people who are involved in multiple RP projects on both sides? Do a quick experiment to see what the experience is like for new players.
Make a new character. One on Horde side, one on Alliance side.
Then try to find RP. But try to find it the way a new player would.
Don’t reach out to your friends, your guildmates. Nothing. Pretend you are at square one. Don’t go to the Monday market, don’t check a Discord until someone directs you to one, don’t go to an event you already know about from other sources.
That is the experience of new players. Which is, if I am not mistaken? What the initial post was asking about. What kind of experience would I have if I hopped on to this active server?
At the end of the day, Horde is growing and getting better. Some of us want that and enourage coming to roleplay and hang out with us. Specially if you see people in rp hubs.
Aside from all the negativity here, I for one always try to encourage the roleplay, and have even at the started efforts of one of my officer’s have been in org in the valley hanging out more often.
Looks like Kohatan beat me to it, but Im gonna post this anyway cause I spent too much time writing it
A quick theme I see here are comments about Orgrimmar and how empty it is, particularly in what would/could be considered RP spots or walkup areas - particularly Valley of Honor (VoH) and the Tail. We say its growing, healthy yet small, and great quality but its nowhere to be found.
Rants of a mad man of how inaccessible walk RP is systemically Horde side.
Some have already mentioned how its more guild focused and so on, and it is, so you wouldn’t really find it in the VoH.
Others have mentioned how Org is just plain ugly/inaccessible/tight/closed off, and all of that is true. The one bar we chose years ago in Cata had a leveling quest that constantly spawned enemies and fights, that they’ve reused for more quests, and stuffed even more NPCs in to an already tight space. That says nothing of the Vulpera, Pandaren, and Mag’har they stuffed in the same area. All the other valleys are similarly inaccessible or just too crowded, so there really isnt a space.
Silvermoon is an option, and has been used in the past across all RP servers, but then you need to cognizantly go to Silvermoon for it when everything normally points you to Org. Its not hard to get to, theres a portal in Org, but when all main portal room, your transmog, your quests, the embassy, etc etc are all in Org the convience factor kinda wins over, espeically when there isnt anyone in SMC in the first place. Thunder Bluff is even more inaccessible, even more than UC, which is also a quick portal away and destroyed with tons of phasing. Thats not to mention how Blood Elf SMC is. Try getting a troll to hang out there all day.
So what do we do if people want walk up spaces? Someones gotta help create it, but its boring as sin sitting there all day by yourself. Ya gotta be there though. I try my best to queue for content while in VoH, off to the side but accessible with a little “Solo Shuffling, but more than happy to drop queue for RP” in my TRP. Does it work? IDK, maybe. I’ve gotten some RP a couple times. Point is I’m at least a body occupying a space and the opportunity is there. I’d suggest others do the same. If you’re not super committed to running arenas or mythics or whatever that night, just want to get a few in for the night for cap or have some fun, do the same. Pop your character in Org, maybe throw some music on or a video on your other screen, or phone, do a little writing, whatever, and be that body people have the opportunity to interact with.
I mean if anyone has an actual critical mindset they’d have seen that there was some pretty lame attacks on the horde rp here. People attacked tend to lash out. It’s an unfortunate reaction. I’m personally more disappointed in the alliance responses to the horde comments.
Anyways. Horde rp here is okay. Probably the second best realm in na.
The thing is that you need people to have that change. Comparitively speaking to make a guild you have a better shot on MG Alliance or WRA Horde because there’s guildless people standing around who are able to sign the petition. Same thing happens with making a discord project.
Majority of people don’t want to stretch their boundaries past what they have. I’ve tried to get friends to get out of Stormwind, and they’re happy rping there. As the other old saying goes “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.” You can lead people out of their comfort zones but you can’t force them to take part in it. In this case to get anything done, it takes a village. It’s easy for you to say since you have the backing of other guilds. Someone just starting out that wants to make a new guild or project doesn’t have that sort of luxury.
It’s funny on how people who are involved in the only active project are trying to paint this picture that there’s nothing wrong happening. But the reality is that it’s not the case. Let’s not be obtuse and beat around the bush around the issue. Roleplay servers are dwindling and maybe it’s time for Blizzard to bite the bullet and just merge them all together which might not only boost things for both Horde and Alliance but also force people to stop hemming and hawing.
I understand the frustration, here. Whoever designed Orgrimmar as it is now needs to be sh–
–needs to be sat down and explained why this is a bad design for a city. It is horrible before you get flying. And the same factors that define a lot of the Horde narrative - frequently disparate people coming together to stand against that what threatens them all - ends up kind of making it difficult to find a real place to chill. The troll in Silvermoon, for example. Or an orc. Goblins in Thunder Bluff. Etc.
And, yes. Just sitting there is incredibly boring. But the importance of doing that cannot. Be. Overstated.
There is a reason places have recruitment fairs. Part of it does suck. I get that. But people have to know you are there.
Initially, I was going to very strongly suggest that more guilds set aside time to do something like that. Just be present. But, as you said? That’s dull.
May I offer a counter-suggestion to my own suggestion that I didn’t offer? You can have it free of charge.
Once a week, or biweekly, or something?
Have some kind of public RP event in Orgrimmar. It doesn’t have to be related to your overall story. You can choose the tone. But have it be there, something people can see. And then maybe when it’s done? Stick around and answer questions. “This is what we’re about.”
You want to be a heavy military guild? Fine. Have some event where you’re talking/arguing about those fabulously dressed but traitorous void elves backstabbing you with their good looks (Note: I am unbiased).
Cartel guild? Have some kind of bazaar that’s interrupted by a rival cartel.
Magic guild? Shoring up defenses in case Jaina gets all ‘I’m going to flood Orgrimmar’ again.
It doesn’t matter what it is. What matters is that it’s there. People can see it. They can see RP. And even if it’s not big at first, you’ll probably get at least a couple of people watching, even if they don’t react. I can tell you from experience that, for example, a simple fight between characters in Stormwind ends up with a lot of looky-loos.
Have people before saying “This is an event brought to you by , or ”. And after, you can say, like, “If you’re curious about this, inquire away!”.
A simple thing like that can go a long way to letting people who might be looking for RP know:
That RP exists
Who some of the guilds are who do RP, and aren’t just PVE/PVP focused
The kind of RP they might find in the guild
And - most importantly - they want others to join
It couldn’t hurt.
Thank you. I appreciate the kind sentiment and invitation.
No, the concerns are heard and have always been heard. Again, this is a very dead horse that is beaten over and over on these very same forums (you have been in of those threads). The reality is that this is a hobby for everyone, and if someone wants something, they are best served creating the things they desire instead of demanding others to do the work for them. Everyone is free and welcome to create the very things they enjoy.
Historically, others broadly dismiss and discount very real engagement and community efforts by the Horde community while shouting on high how there are no such efforts in a manner that makes it very clear that they are not actually supporting any of the community efforts by the Horde. Apply your own logic, “People’s ideas and concerns should be considered, maybe even addressed.” and actually listen to the Horde and, for once, notice the actual community’s very real efforts instead of bandwagoning the anti-Horde parade.
It is everyone’s $15 a month, find what makes you happy and if you don’t find it create it. Final post, back to the work grind for me.
This. Or hell in the next prepatch maybe take a field trip to Dalaran or somewhere that’s not going to have the bloat of Stormwind having everyone and their mother do pre-patch stuff. That’s what people did during the SHL pre-patch. For those affiliated with Stormwind Law Project we were more so refugees seeking shelter after the undead starting attacking. That way those who wanted to rp during the pre-patch could do their thing, and people that didn’t want to could do their’s.
The same thing could be said with Orgrimmar. Depending on where the event or pre-patch is that Blizzard does, take the time to move activities to another city like Silvermoon or Lordaeron or wherever. People can still do their rp and be seen to rp without there being interruptions or even lag.
The more rp there is to offer the more that everyone wins.
The loudly pro-Legion, Flayer of Puppies strolling around Stormwind shouting people down about how they need to take a pamphlet and join the Legion, do go against my personal interpretation of what could plausibly happen without guards raining down from the sky to take them down, so do you know what I do?
My character writes it off as “this place is crazy” and I move on with my night, unbothered. Curating your own experience by choosing what to actively engage with is a critical skill that is absolutely necessaary in a crowded, lively environment, but the benefits of that environment for me personally outweigh the drawbacks by vast amounts.
And it’s fine if you think differently. I don’t pay your $15 a month, but neither do you pay anyone else’s.
As a quick note: like everyone else I started as a new player on this server. With dedication and time I worked hard and built. I didn’t start out with support network over night. Over the years, there has been incredible hardships and some ugly things seen.
Had I known the truth about the Coalition leadership, and what they really supported and stood for? We would have never of joined or supported it in the first place. That is just one of many examples of the many problems faced down. Nothing has been given to me or anyone else on this server who has put in the time and effort to create content, big or small.
If you want something, and it doesn’t exist? Be the agent of change, and be prepared for the hard work that entails.
I think the large part of this or well problem is that rpers in Stormwind have a bad problem of understanding what boundaries are. And even worse understanding that people can and will stand up for their boundaries being heard.
Too often have I had people take issue with me explaining what my boundaries are and standing up for them when it comes to what’s lore and not lore. Technically by the logic of many ren’dorei, illidari, death knights, darkfallen should not be in Stormwind but here we are.
People really need to know the meaning of “Not my circus nor my monkeys.” It doesn’t concern you or your character. Just pretend they’re not there and move on from it. It’ll improve your rp drastically.
For clarification purposes I mean you in the general sense not the personal one.
Since it’s been sometime since you made a guild I’ll illuminate you as I’ve made several both Horde and Alliance. Some were more placeholders so I didn’t get bombarded with guild invites as I leveled alts. But you need four people to sign a charter.
On Moonguard Alliance, I got that in minutes. Moonguard Horde, it took a couple days on and off depending on how few people were in Orgrimmar. Again you need people to do something. Hell, I’ve got a discord group for a kaldorei event based in Kalimdor. Haven’t gotten that off the ground because many people would rather rp in Amirdrassil. Again, you need people with similiar interests to get things off the ground. The game’s not designed to do things on your own.
So congrats that you were able to do much when there was still people around to help you. I am not that lucky nor do I have that sort of luxury. Nor do any new players for that matter. It’s easy to say from atop your pedestal.
I very nearly had the unfortunate task of having to see if coffee spit onto a laptop could easily be remedied.
And…yes. I do wish more people understood that you don’t need to “correct” someone else’s RP if it’s not in keeping with your interpretation. It’s perfectly valid to just think “Oh. Okay, I can’t get involved with this, I think it’s incompatible/not what I’m feeling tonight/silly” and move on.
It is 100% fine to just not choose to engage with something. It doesn’t mean the other person is bad or wrong. You don’t have to eat everything at a buffet.
“This”, if I may. It’s perfectly okay to not acknowledge something. You can let someone else know that OOC. Just a “(Thanks, but I prefer not to acknowledge this particular thing)”. That’s perfectly okay.
I’ll never understand why people think that they have the ability to move the needle on someone else’s RP that they’re not even involved with. There are some situations that will predictably always break out into moshpit fights in OOC brackets, and like…why? The person you’re railing at isn’t going to be like, oh, sorry, I didn’t realize that people might not agree with this, I’ll write up a whole new TRP right now. Use that energy to do something fun instead.
But, yeah. More people, more problems, but on the whole I find it to be really fun to hang out and watch people be silly with that weird acting/writing realtime daily blend that you don’t really get in any other kind of creative outlet. And then I also have plotted events and ongoing storylines with my friends. It’s win win win as far as I’m concerned, but I am totally on board with people preferring a different, more controlled environment if it’s not their cup of tea.
I try to keep things in whispers and be polite about it. Then before I know it the person I’m whispering has a complete meltdown that I established my boundaries and they had an issue with it. Making a complete arsh out of themselves and it becomes embarassing to watch.
I had to stop rping in the city after a while because it was becoming an every day occurence. I log in to level or do raids or do renown grinding and have like an hour before I go to bed to rp. I got enough drama in my life, I dpn’t need some rando adding onto it because I told them they had to ask before they could attack my character for whatever stupid reason.
One of my favorite evenings with Lady Vanaelia happened with two different events in succession. The first one was very tense and dramatic, as she was having what was very nearly a heated argument with some authorities regarding the presence of a troll in the city. For obvious reasons, this high/blood/void elf had some issues with that, and growing increasingly frustrated with what she felt was foolishness on the side of the other party. It dealt with very heavy, serious themes.
Literally less than an hour later, there was a series of sitcom-level horrified reactions because a player had a pet that looked like a walking nightmare. It was a complete tonal shift. It was amazing.
It was some from the first interaction who joined me with the second. So, another vote for having people who enjoy the same kinds of interactions that you do.
This doesn’t really contribute to the overall…well, anything. I just like that story.
