And I respect your opinions on this. I do, I’m not trying to demean your opinions on this subject. But I’m in agreement that we both agree to disagree and move on.
No hard feelings I hope 
None at all. You’ve been respectful, even though we disagree.
So kudos to you for that. Hopefully I see you around MG sometime, would actually be nice to RP with more folks, especially on my Draenei. Just… don’t expect them to like your Drae warlock if they ever run into her.
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Good luck with everything hun and I wish you the best. Hopefully we do bump into each other on MG
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I’d love getting Man’ari customization options, but only AFTER we’re given appropriate lore justification, through a questline or idk. I mean, the Krokul did stay behind on Argus, right ? And surely pockets of aimless Man’ari are still wandering the wastes of the planet too. What can they do now ? A breakaway group could come their senses and realize that without the Burning Legion only total annihilation awaits them if they remain hostile to virtually the entire universe, so they could enter into negotiations with the Krokul and reconnect with their larger kin, courtesy of the Broken (Broken customization options should be the top priority though because Outland Broken have been established as full-on members of the Alliance for years now).
And I could see that happen for all of the crazy subraces/subfactions whose leaders we killed and organizations we dismantled, such as the Blood Trolls, the few remaining Fel Orcs, the Druids of the Flame, the remnants of the Dark Horde, the San’layn…
Make outcast groups of all the crippled villain orgs join the factions lorewise and give us the corresponding customization options because customization options are cool. When they fit the lore.
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Blizzard could mimic what they did with the Highborne when they introduced them in Cataclysm. There was a dialogue that popped up before the launch patch was implemented, that Wowpedia still has around and that features Mordent first introduction:
Conversation with Sentinel Stillbough
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Sentinel, I would speak with your High Priestess.
Sentinel Stillbough says: You must wait for an audience.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Must I? I doubt Tyrande has more pressing business.
Sentinel Stillbough says: You show some nerve coming to Teldrassil, Highborne. Your kind are unwelcome here. We have not forgotten the War of the Ancients or the minds behind it.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: The lure of power is great. Mistakes were made.
Sentinel Stillbough says: And we would not see those mistakes repeated. Return to your exile.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I will not return until I am heard. There is too much at stake. There is a change on the wind, and we cannot ignore it. I have traveled from the dust and ruin of the past to come to an accord. The time may soon come when the kaldorei require the knowledge and skill we have to offer. I will wait, Sentinel… but I will have my audience.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade looks over at the moonwell with a sigh.
Sentinel Stillbough says: Take your gaze off the moonwell, exile. The power within is not yours to wield.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Calm yourself, Sentinel. I do not seek to use it. I am merely… remembering.
Sentinel Stillbough says: Recalling your treachery?
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Enough. I have been apart from this for centuries. The well within this temple may be a pale spectre of the Well of Eternity, but it still holds the same… beauty. Purity.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I had forgotten.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I do not believe admiration and wistful thoughts are against the societal norm.
Sentinel Stillbough says: Watch yourself, Highborne.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: You were the one who challenged me for merely looking. I still await my audience with Tyrande.
Sentinel Stillbough says: In good time.
A similar scenario regarding the Man’ari could be done.
This was basically the intro for playable Night elf mages.
These days, I’d hope for something more elaborate, but I think that this would cover the bare minimum for combinations as controversial as these.
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Mixed feelings. Lightforged are willing recipients. Hearing or Seeing Xe’ra forcibly convert someone gives her more zeal that what she is doing is correct even if the others don’t see dealing with demons as particularly holy. The fact they did not put Illidan down while he was in the middle of the ship both disillusioned her about her comrades strength in the light while setting the seed that fel needs to be studied better if it is capable of straight deleting the pinnacle of Naaru. No void form just straight deletion from existence. They could be a useful skill if it works on other things.
Val’zuun
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To be honest here, he is tagged as a “Man’ari Eredar”.
In WoW, that means demon.
It’s the same race as Kil’jaeden and Archimonde. Can’t get any more demonic than that…
Certainly but he is an exception and presumably working independently from the legion. In the xpac with demon hunters I would hope they would have flagged him appropriately.
His existence to me hints that without legion influence they lose their status of full demonhood.
Sure sure.
I just wanted to point that out.
I don’t think that there is an universal definition for what a demon is in Warcraft. In fact, the term Man’ari in WoW comes from the Eredar language to refer to something twisted.
This is the bit that has Velen reflecting about such in the novel:
He turned to look at Kil’jaeden, and his old friend smiled. Archimonde put a friendly hand on his shoulder.
Then Velen looked down at himself.
And cried out in horror.His body was now gargantuan, but twisted and distorted. Smooth blue skin was now black and brown and gnarled, like some once-noble tree disfigured by disease. Light radiated from him, true, but not the pure light of powerful, positive energy, but a sickly green. Frantically he turned to behold his friends, his fellow leaders of the eredar. They, too, had been transformed. They, too, retained nothing of what they had been but were now—
Man’ari.
The eredar word for something horrifically wrong, something twisted and unnatural and defiled slammed into his mind with the force of a shining sword. He cried out again and his knees buckled. Velen pulled his gaze away from his tormented body, searching for the peace and prosperity and knowledge Sargeras had promised him. He beheld only atrocities.
I also chose to highlight this fragment because it gives us an approximation to what the physical appearence of a lightforged Draenei could be. Quoting the exact bit again:
Smooth blue skin was now black and brown and gnarled, like some once-noble tree disfigured by disease. Light radiated from him, true, but not the pure light of powerful, positive energy, but a sickly green.
I know Velen isn’t a Lightforged Draenei, but he is intrinsically tied with the Light.
Having his vision portray him in such manner (instead of the bright red Kil’jaeden turned into, or the deep purple of Archimonde), could serve Blizzard to add more accuracy if they follow through with the Warlock Class implementation.
Brown and black skins, with gnarly features, and a greenish tint to their Light halo.
It is certainly hard to quantify and I’m pretty aure there are Men’ari in game flagged as normal humanoids somewhere. I wouldn’t complain if those were all options for warlocks. You can actually get the head rune already with the Accursed Tome of the Sargerei toy
I am not sure if they have a term for ex-Man’ari so outwardly he may still be assumed to be one, or they miss flagged him of course
Canonically in Legion one of the Archaeology artifacts said that not all demons have the necessary chaos to be “good demons” and so would use an Orb of Inner Chaos to force themselves to be chaotic/properly demonic
Stands to reason a lot of demons just played the part, and many lack the proper attitude to be Le Epic Evil Demons.
Going back to Argus to recruit the Man’ari would be great! They really should be a separate race. It doesn’t seem like it would take much work to add them. New racials are all that I think would be needed.
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He said No.
X’era did the same thing a lot of men do… She ignored his NO. It’s no better from her. Any measure taken to escape enslavement is justified… especially against the enslaver.
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When you put it that way, it actually make Xe’ra looks WORSE, not better. He told her no on three seperate ocassions and she still tried to force herself and her beliefs on him.
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Why are we debating this Xe’ra/Illidan thing again ? Xe’ra was doing something bad. Even Velen acknowledges it
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But what were Illidan’s reasons for saying no?
Yeah, how dare Xe’ra try to take Illidan’s goal of ending the Burning Legion and replace it with… ending the Burning Legion while using the Light 
After Illidan did worse to Akama - splitting Akama’s soul and threatening to have his evil half eat his good half if Akama didn’t serve Illidan, I say what Xe’ra tried to do to him was “what goes around comes around”.
On that note, would you consider mandatory conscription/the Draft, prison labor or court-ordered community service slavery?
What three separate occasions? What beliefs? They both wanted to end the Burning Legion at all costs.
By the way, what do you think of mandatory conscription/the Draft, prison labor or court-ordered community service?
Illidan did worse to Akama. Why should he be forgiven and Xe’ra written off?
Besides, if Lightforged warlocks are forcing demons to serve them, is that wrong? Because that’s what some people say Xe’ra tried to do to Illidan, so by playing a Lightforged warlock, you’re doing to those demons what you say Xe’ra tried to do to Illidan. So would the demons be justified edgelording our PCs to death with fel lasers?
This is why right and wrong shouldn’t be based on “which character am I emotionally attached to?”
Should be done away with. They serve no purpose other than to make the government money off the backs off the poor
And you understand that forcing one’s religious beliefs on someone else is wrong right? She tried to forcefully convert Illidan to her faith and most people are against that
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Just dropping in to say they’re all bad.
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I won’t be playing at all, so no I will not.
Unless they make say “lore” class restricted servers, I am out. I never want to play with classes like OP mentioned, or say void elf paladins or the contradictal druid forsaken.
Breaks the games immersion and makes it unfun.
While I commend you for being fair, you do realize that prison labor and court-ordered community service are punishments for criminals who may not be poor? For example, the multi-millionaire singer Chris Brown was sentenced to community service for beating his then-girlfriend Rhianna. Does that sound like a just punishment (imo it was lenient).
What she did to Illidan was like what Illidan did to Akama except less bad. Also, does de-radicalizing extremists also count as forced conversions (or forced deconversions/forced apostasy?)
Fair enough. Thank you for sharing.