How would you finish Tyrande's story arc?

Lore Story Forum
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You ever read the Illidan novel?

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What am I doing with my life trying to explain to some kid what redemption actually means?

Dude whatever makes you happy. That’s not how that works but whatever.

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Hitler wanted to save Germany from a threat he imagined in his head.
So he started to cleanse his nation of the threat.
Now that you know his intention is he redeemed to you?

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Having a noble purpose does not redeem you nor does it absolve you nor does it even make that person any less of an ahole for doing what they did (IE Hitler in this example).

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So those were Hitler’s ideals. There are loads of madmen out there in our history who thought what they were doing is good.
Or thought what was good for them was good for the state. You know. Craziness.

Sylvanas could be trying to make everyone immortal and free of death (I am 100% sure that is her goal) and while it sounds good on paper it is quite frankly demented. I think there is enough popculture material to tell us why an immortal world is a bad idea.

Redemption is when a character who has consistently done bad does something to redeem themselves by undoing or saving some other people than their original demented idea.
Like Darth Vader killing the emperor at the cost of his own life.
It didn’t erase his sins but he did redeem himself in that final act.
During his entire career Darth Vader probably thought the empire was a much better alternative to the republic.

So
 Sylvanas needs a Darth Vader moment to be redeemed. Simply knowing her crazy goals, even if they look good on paper is not enough to redeem them.

Regarding Illidan and his redemption. His efforts stopped the legion and his last act was to stay behind and battle sargeras. That’s as close as you can get to the darth vader moment.

Could not agree more.

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People KEEP saying this
 without any foundation whatsoever save their own sense of persecution.

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(post deleted by author)

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I will point out 3 things regarding this theory.

  1. Loyalist plotline. This shows that Blizzard is very aware Sylvanas’ popularity and is reaching out to show that the Horde is still a place for players who agree with her, even while she does probably the worst things in her long career of horrible things.

  2. This delightful quote from an interview made after the Nazjatar patch, “I would tell Sylvanas fans that her story definitely isn’t over yet. We have a lot more to tell. She’s not Garrosh 2.0. She has a lot more going on. Don’t want to spill anything, but there is a ton more coming for Sylvanas’s story.” emphasis mine.

This was both addressed to Sylvanas fans, and it promises there is a lot more to tell. A lot has not been told about Sylvanas since the Nazjatar patch.

  1. New novel coming out, which creates plenty of opportunities to soft load in enough of a retcon to make the character salvageable in the eyes of the rest of the Horde.
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No quicker than we teamed up with Jaina and helped her fight Sunreavers.

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It is funny that they had Magister Hathorel survive when it doesn’t feel like they were going to do anything with him afterwards. Like with Thalen Songweaver and Fanlyr Silverthorn, Blizzard has a tendency to just write hostile minor character Blood Elves out of the story once their plot point is done.

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Illidan was left in WCIII as more akin to an antihero, and his reintroduction in BC was problematic even at the time. Nobody bought his sudden turn to full villainy, the overarching storyline made the least sense, and it was clear by the end that Kael was the real force behind the terribad. So redeeming him was more to do justice to Illy, to make up for him barely existing in the expansion all about him.

Azshara escaping in the end isn’t anything close to redemption. She’s still an enemy. She’s just an enemy of our enemy as well.

We also have the option to stay corrupted by N’zoth. It didn’t lead to N’zoth sticking around.

That is very clearly referring to Shadowlands. An expansion where we know only a handful of things, and one of those handful? She’s allied with the big evil of the expansion.

All of this is a whole lot of reaching to justify a stance to be offended by. And it’s totally unnecessary; BfA has given everyone plenty to be offended by. But to say that because one character who was mischaracterized got a second chance, and another one who was evil ran off, that this somehow means Sylvy’s going to come out heroic?

Nah. Y’all need to take the tinfoil hats off, you made them way too tight.

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If that doesn’t make it more than obvious to people then I don’t even know anymore. They can straight up say that Sylvanas will be redeemed and people would still argue against it

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Yeah, but they never developed extra quests for those who chose to stay corrupted by N’zoth, nor did they ever address the fanbase who chose to stay corrupted by N’zoth in subsequent interviews, reassuring them that N’zoth’s story continues.

I mean sure, they were obviously talking about Sylvanas not dying at the end of BfA and her story continuing. But Gul’dan was also allied with the big evil of Legion, and his story didn’t have a lot more to tell. Seemingly so was Garrosh for that matter, until the switch in the last act, and his story had more to tell than Gul’dans, but it wasn’t a lot more.

That quote can, and I think should, be read as Blizzard telling you that Sylvanas’ story not only continues in Shadowlands, but will be a significant part of the story in Shadowlands. And when there is significant story time dedicated to a character, that creates the opportunity for what Elesana and others believe is a foregone conclusion.

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Only by the most paranoid minds, or those who are trying to create their own drama to act dramatically about.

Seriously, we know beyond a doubt that the Jailer is the big bad. We know beyond a doubt that Sylvy is allied with him. We know to a reasonable degree (because the devs said so) that Sylvy has been working with him since Cata, and that her working for him has been the reason she has pushed for so much carnage. None of that sounds like redemption arc territory. None of that sounds like a burgeoning antihero.

Honestly, the type of person who can honestly look at that, look at what we know so far and still come to the conclusion that a redemption arc is inevitable? Either you’re trying to create your own pity party from nothing, or you might need to take a break from the Alex Jones binge you’re on.

Or you’re Pyromancer.

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I can confirm he’s not Pyromancer. But he’s probably Ronstin.

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Tyrande's Legecy

Tyrande has been part of the World of Warcraft universe for 18 years (real-time) and 10,000+ years (in canon lore). She has an extensive history and has featured in numerous novels and short stories as well as campaigns in WC3 and World of Warcraft. This level of face-time has been shared, more or less, by Illidan Stormrage, Malfurion Stormrage, and Maiev Shadowsong (pretty much all of the primary night elf heroes in the WoW universe).

In that time Tyrande has remained mostly consistent as a character, despite being handled by multiple writers and writing teams at Blizzard, and despite a few bizarre outlier scenarios.

In all that time, Tyrande has remained the paramount figure and representative of the night elves. She has served as an archetypal night elf, an idol/figure by which many fans have come to understand night elves, their culture, society and social norms within the World of Warcraft fandom.

Having the same role-model or archetypal figure for too long (18+ years now) can have negative effects on long-term stories, and as more time goes on I begin to feel like Tyrande has outstayed her welcome. This is not to say that she is a bad character by any means. I, personally, have enjoyed her legacy within the World of Warcraft universe, but I would like to explore other night elf stories and learn about other night elf norms outside Tyrande, because she should not be the sole representative of the culture and I believe character diversity in storytelling will help quash a lot of the issues I’ve seen in the stories of the night elf people.

Night Warrior Tyrande: Past, Present and Future

Past: Foreshadowing

The Night Warrior is not a new concept. In fact, it was originally written about in the 2004 War of the Ancients Trilogy by Richard A. Knaak. Since 2004, all concepts surrounding the Night Warrior have, more or less, had to do with warfare and death - the intent being a polarization between Elune's two aspects: Mother Moon and the Night Warrior (goddess of peace/war and of life/death, respectively).

In those 2004 novels, there were some tidbits of foreshadowing pertaining exclusively to Tyrande and the Night Warrior aspect of Elune:

"In contrast to the previous times that they had met, the novice priestess of Elune-the Mother Moon-wore an outfit more befitting the way of war than the peace of the temple [
]

To Malfurion, she looked more like the priestess of a war god and evidently Tyrande could read such in his expression. With a bit of defensiveness, she admonished him, “You may excel at your new calling, Malfurion, but you seem to have forgotten the elements of Mother Moon! Do you not recall her aspect as the Night Warrior, she who takes the courageous dead from the field and sets them riding across the evening sky as stars for their reward?”
The Demon Soul, page 54

“The Sisters of Elune did likewise, their groups poised to aid in whatever way necessary, be it healing or war.”
The Demon Soul, page 79

“Then, another welcome surprise-chanting came from the center of the advance. The Sisterhood of Elune, resplendent in their battle armor, strengthened the fighters further. Day might have held precedence at the moment, but the priestesses’ rhythmic singing literally fed the nocturnal warriors. It was as if the moon herself suddenly hung over the host.”
The Demon Soul, page 128

“Warriors astride night sabers charged into the battle from all sides, their beasts mauling some of the demons before the latter realized they were under assault. As the newcomers attacked, they sang. Malfurion gaped at them, only belatedly realizing that they were not the soldiers of Jarod Shadowsong. Their armor was more silver and-he looked twice-shaped for more feminine figures. The song he heard was in praise of the Night Warrior, the fearsome battle incarnation of the Mother Moon.”
The Demon Soul, page 159

Present: Speculation

In the 2004 novels another figure of some renown, tied to Elune, is also mentioned. Her name is Kalo'thera and she was a High Priestess of Elune that existed centuries before the War of the Ancients. The quote from the novel is below:

“It‟s where Kalo’thera ascended to the stars,” Maiev countered, referring to a celebrated high priestess from centuries past. Many in the sisterhood considered Kalo’thera almost a demigoddess.
The Sundering, page 53

What’s interesting about this quote is that it indicates Kalo’thera was somehow unique from other High Priestesses of the past, to the point that some believed she was a demigoddess. Now, a demigod or demigoddess is a being with partial divine status, not so unlike our Night Warrior today. What’s more interesting is that we know the Kaldorei Empire was really formed in the early reign of Queen Azshara, possibly around the same time Kalo’thera was High Priestess, centuries before Tyrande’s time in the Sisterhood of Elune.

In Battle for Azeroth, we learn a little more about the Night Warrior from Maiev:

“Legend says that long ago, Elune bestowed her fury upon our greatest warriors to secure Kalimdor. In a sacred ritual, the strongest among them became her avatar - the Night Warrior. Our victory was swift. None who have attempted the ritual since then have survived. Elune’s raw power tears them apart.”
Quest: In Darkest Night

I have to wonder if it’s possible that Kalo’thera, whose Darnassian name roughly translates to “Stars’ Revenge/War” (speculative), was that early Night Warrior. And if she was, why did she ascend to the stars? Was it because it was the only way to return Elune’s divine gift?

Another interaction that I find particularly interesting from Battle for Azeroth is the following:

Shandris Feathermoon says: What ritual do you speak of, Maiev? Who is the Night Warrior?

Maiev Shadowsong says: She is the incarnation of Elune’s wrath. Even witnessing the ritual to become her would put our lives at risk.

Shandris Feathermoon says: And the only life Tyrande wishes to risk is her own. Elune watch over her.
Quest: In Darkest Night

What resonates with me is the fact that Shandris Feathermoon, the adoptive daughter of Tyrande who has served alongside Tyrande since the War of the Ancients (10,000 years), who knows Tyrande arguably better than Malfurion (who liked to take century-long naps at a time), says: “And the only life Tyrande wishes to risk is her own.”

Future: Speculation

I speculate that we may see Tyrande making a great sacrifice on behalf of her people in Shadowlands, though not likely until the end of the expansion. I do not believe this would happen because she is a bad character and needs to be killed off, but because, as a character, she has more or less run her course and she is the optimal choice out of all the night elves to perform whatever must be done to secure the souls of the fallen night elves in The Maw.

Over the course of Shadowlands, I think we will see Tyrande continuing her hunt for Sylvanas. Outside of hunting Sylvanas, there seem to be few alternatives as to what could motivate Tyrande to dive into the Shadowlands. I also think we will see a shift in Tyrande’s motivations, following the storyline in Ardenweald. Considering that, at present, Tyrande is solely focused on revenge and has no idea about the lost souls in The Maw, my guess is she will shift focus to saving those souls at some point in the storyline out of personal duty as the “Night Warrior”, who has long been known to assist in ferrying souls of Elune’s chosen.

I do suspect that Tyrande will play a pivotal role against the “Jailer” in Shadowlands, and whatever being may be behind him by the very conclusion of the expansion as well. However, I have a hunch that we may see something climatic and final happen with Tyrande as well, such as her Ascending in a manner similar to Kalo’thera and the mantle of High Priestess falling to another.

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333

Now this! I can accept. And I do hope the devs consider this and write as such.

Thank you, Feyawen. <3

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It’s a nice story line but I’m not supportive of anything that ends in Tyrande’s death.

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I wouldn’t like anything that ends with Tyrande’s death or the Night elf souls having to stay in the maw forever or getting destroyed


Just let those go to Ardenweald atleast, I’m really not asking for much anymore


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What would torque my wheels off is Sylvannas becoming a vehicle for the redemption of Arthas.