I agree the amount of spells that ret has, especially with wings attached to ashes, is perfect.
I do disagree that the proc would be too much skill. Its based on crit and a proc, so your not really required to do anything with it. However, the dmg and extra holy power it provides is substantial enough to not downplay it. It certainly breaks up the monotonous rotation of judgment/blade builders that we fall into for periods of wings downtime.
Anything that “adds 1 holy power” is lazy af, however, its not exorcism in any sort of way.
The proc could always add something special to increase spender dmg, but fear of it becoming too substantial and disrupting rotation would be derogatory.
I do think our spenders need more “umpf,” but i do think the rotation (especially in templar) outside of wings is something that needs a lil love and exorcism, as beautiful as it once was, probably would help the situation as i introduced it. However, blizz would have to do it without screwing it up ( L.O.L).
Add more trees.
Maybe tune the old ones so that they are competitive with the new ones.
At best re-do the one that missed the mark they were going for, like the hunters one.
I think it was pretty clear when Hero Spec were introduced that this was how they were gonna expand class fantasy and ideas without pilling them on on top of each others.
They explicitly said it was an “evergreen” feature.
It’s basically the “borrowed powers” system but you actually keep them from expac to expac.
It’s an addon, a hat if you will.
As time goes by they’ll add more hats to our closet.
You’ll get to have many hats but only wear 1 at a time.
How long they can keep that going is anyone guess.
If they add 2 Hero spec per specs per expac it would already be 6 by the end of the worls soul saga.
So my guess would be maybe 1 per expac after TWW.
Keep that going maybe for 1-2 expac after worldsoul and then reevaluate the situation.
Oh for sure, it’s just my personal gripe with how Paladins are currently set up. 
It’s not Exorcism, but it should be.
Ret legit has a choice node for every single DPS ability… but they don’t go far enough to make them themed playstyle choices.
Ex:
- Crusading Strikes vs Templar Strike/Slash
- Minus Blades of Light, Crusading Strikes should be Radiant and Templar Strike/Slash should be that Templar combination of Holy and Physical Damage, imo
- Improved Blade of Justice vs Holy Blade
- Holy Blade should be Exorcism (Redesigned)
- BoJ should do Radiant damage baseline?
- Improved Judgment vs Boundless Judgement
- Vanguards Momentum vs Sanctify (redesigned)
- Final Verdict vs Justicar’s Vengeance (redesigned)
- Execution Sentence vs Final Reckoning (redesigned)
I think the “Fun Factor” missing from Ret right now is a few things;
-
There isn’t this clear, organized, and interesting split between our Dps Ability Choice Nodes, that solid Holyfire (not necessarily Radiant to pigeon hold Hero Talents) vs Holy
-
A majority of our DPS comes from Dawnlights and Empyrean Hammers, but they don’t feel like intentional player actions.
- This is more like Evis vs Rupture, or Bite vs Rip
-
And then other things like Divine Toll not being very interesting
New hero trees will break the whole Ret + Holy = Herald / Ret + Prot = Templar dynamic, and I don’t want anything new before what we already have is balanced and polished. But I like your hat analogy and I want a third hero tree somehow and at some point.
Some natural synergy between spec talents and hero trees is fine. Not everything will be totally based on personal preference, and surely sometimes an “off-school” mechanic will function just fine. Keep it simple: everything a max-level Ret does should be either holystrike or radiant, and those schools should feel more meaningful somehow.
That was just an excuse to create 2 hero tree per spec whilst only making 3 trees.
Quite ingenious, you give a choice for the new feature so that people don’t feel TOO pigeonholed.
Then you can make 3 trees each fixed to 1 spec and still have the previous 2 choices if people aren’t satisfied with the new one.
Nothing stops them doing something similar again too.
They could even do something like this cross-classes.
Frost DK-Frost Mage
Unholy-Affliction lock
Ret-Arms
Ret-Vengeance*
Prot-Prot
Even things that makes less sense to bring to life fantasy that don’t exist yet
Fury-Mage spec for a dual wielding battlemage
DH-Warlock that could bring back Metamorphosis on Warlock.
Etc…
Admittedly that would be a lot more work IMO.
Ultimately, that’s just a vehicle to carry the idea this time around, it doesn’t need to be like this forever.
This type of cross-over has proved challenging since some spec don’t really play or aim at doing the same thing, especially hybrid class that can do all roles.
It’s a lot more work to flesh out.
And although they could keep on this route I doubt they will.
But you can be 100% sure, Midnight will have new hero trees for all specs.
They literally said it’s coming.
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Yeah, I guess it would be simpler to just remove the flat Radiant Modifiers from talents like Burning Crusade so Hero Talents don’t feel too forced.
I’m not 100% sure the right answer, just not a big fan of how Paladins are currently Holy, Holystrike and Radiant based, and how that’s played out over the entire spec.
Being harsh with it, my magic wand waving would cut the bull**** of this illusion of choice in talents, make the right side a solid, fun Radiant Build and the left side a solid, fun Holystrike Build, overlap where it makes sense, and add awesome Hero Talents on top.
It’s not super interesting on the surface, but lets be honest, when’s the last time you spec’d into Justicar’s Vengeance or Sanctify? Might as well make those choices more concise for the average player. ; )
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Just to pull on your nose a bit…
If you want to meme a 1hander+Shield Ret, the only ST spender you can use with that is JV.
Food for thoughts… 
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umm big problem are execution sentence and divine hammer
Maybe i didnt get into it deep enough yet, but i just rolled ret from my enhance shaman today (was doing it for cosmetic tokens and figured id level a new class)
Rets the most fun ive had in wow in a very long time. So is prot.
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Thats bc enh is a garbled mess of whack of mole. Lol.
Ret is clean.
Templar is clunky and the only ability that matters doesn’t matter half the time, you end up doing “a lot of dmg” to things you are not hitting, it’s just so boring.
Herald is a LOT smoother but the numbers are kinda low.
This may sound odd but I’d find the spec a lot more fun if they made Divine Purpose not increase dmg or healing but the proc rate be doubled, or rework it so it’s guaranteed to proc every 3 spenders or something like that.
“Flavor” wise, I’d rather be able to replace the weapon with just holy glow and punch people like monks before having something like a 2h and shield lol.
Btw you can replace most of the game sounds with better choices (Cata TV, WoA with Breath of Fire, etc), it makes the spec a lot less dull. And give us something to replace the pony visual, it’s just so dumb.
Maybe im the only one, but im having a blast on Ret. Ret is busted broken OP right now. But if you play it right it should feel busted broken OP. The only problem is the blinking christmas tree that is my action bars. So many buttons but thats just playing a Pally.
Easy and OP aren’t remotely the same thing. It’s silly to make such a dumb statement when logs exist.
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Flow and simple are not the same thing either. Just because everything fits nicely together and seems simple does not mean it is.
Please tell me you aren’t trying to imply ret isn’t simple? Or better yet, please tell me you are.
Ret is extremely simple, what are you talking about
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Im not saying it isnt simple, however, it is not THEE simpliest ive seen. Many, many specs have been far simplier than present ret. What im saying is that a well built spec that flows good and has matching cds, etc… will feel simplier than what it actually is.
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Its one thing to have poor mobility, but it is another to be at the mercy of every other class movement impairing tools to the point where it is not fun.
All I want is an option to outplay the plethora of grips and knocks that add insult to the injury of the already abundant roots and snares.
When I freedom the slow, only to be gripped or knocked, and then have the slow reapplied you realize how little impact that Freedom has one helping our mobility.
If I could freedom the grip or knock that would give me a chance to outplay this scenario. I’d have to suffer the slow, but if I could make the knock or grip immune with freedom, that would make ret more fun to play IMO. Or at least less “less fun”
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Freedom almost got knockback immunity once, but it was removed before it went live. I could see it with either Freedom or Steed, probably via a talent.
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