I will not see the bad things for certain, and to be honest it will barely affect me, cause I rarely pug, if at all. I just think it’s a terrible idea that will backfire in a spectacular fashion.
This is so perfect, it’s a showcase of everything people hate about M+. It’s almost parody. I couldn’t encapsulate and replicate this level of douche if I tried 100 times. You just exude it so easily. I’m glad you enjoy this waste of time they call M+, but I truly hope you don’t actually put any real effort into it. It’s just a game that gives you nothing in return but purple pixels. So long as you are applying this level of dedication to Anything that actually matters, then you can be a try hard all you want. Just please, please, please don’t be living in your moms garage, turned into a room, and be telling people to dedicate more wasted time to wow the life eater.
No, every key bricked this season for me on my rogue came down to a bad tank, healer or both.
These people don’t need more hand holding. The sad reality is that in DF 2500 was free and most tanks/heals are used to easy mode. I’ll give you an example. There are several hallways in Stonevault that require the healer to pre use cd’s on pull depending on the tank. I’ve played with a 2600 healer who didn’t use said cd’s and a 1900 healer (both priest) that did. Guess which pull resulted in a wipe? Yep, the one with the 2600 healer. The 1900 healer was a pvp refugee, which is why he was pre popping cd’s on pulls b/c he knew that to do so after would mean someone died. The other healer had no pvp exp and had no idea why people were dying.
Some other things to note. Most and I mean most not all tanks/heals have no idea how Diminishing returns on cc work. Major problem, again going back to the 2600 priest I ran with the other day was them never knowing when we were out of cc despite us being in discord and me calling it out. Major dam comes in, someone dies and we get ‘wha happen’?
The point is that this isn’t a dps being toxic only issue, its a tank/heals don’t understand how these pulls work based on incoming damage potentials.
Point being, games changed. If tanks/heals want to coast and not use cd’s till boss that’s a good reason for a call out, especially when it looks like a lot are being carried by group utility and not actual skill.
The distinction of who initiates it? The result is the same.
Which means for the first bit nothing changes, and the second bit the end result is the same so I do not care.
I’m also opening up the system for more people to be willing to run their own key and make their own groups. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Blizzard testing this.
Because they both result in the same thing. God this is reminding me of the argument I had with someone over tank threat in classic where they insisted that I need to be doing as much threat as possible and my argument was that if I’m doing enough threat that the boss is hitting me then any extra is irrelevant.
Seriously, what is the difference if the group disbands because the leader kicked people, or the 4 people who weren’t the leader decided “welp its not my key, no reason to stay” and left. Nothing. There is no difference. The only difference is that in the current system the leader is screwed over twice while everyone else is screwed over once.
I’d like a response to this question.
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That’s what I mean. You have a stock of people who might be able to do it, and you treat them like the guy who runs the ferris wheel at the county faire, and there’s a shortage. Maybe if people stopped being overly cricitcal toxic jerks, people might be inclined to move into that tier of content. Hence lowering the shortage. As it is, why would I? Why would I go through all of that, especially if at the lowest level it’s there?
It literally is not the same. It’s wild how you think being kicked and someone leaving are the same thing. Keys not depleting will 100% result in players being kicked after the first pull to refill and restart. This is degenerate play and will be toxic for pugs and only for pugs.
This again mainly hurts the pugging community. Why would people risk running a lower key to help someone out if they can’t do mechanics and fail the key?
Not a thing. Tank damage intake varies so wildly. It’s not remotely needed if tank is good.
Can you carry a tank with externals? … maybe. But “needed” far from it.
I mean, you’re entitled to your opinion about it.
But lots of people PUG. If something helps lots of people and barely affects you – isn’t it worth trying to make others happy?
Seems silly to be so resistant to a change that isn’t gonna change anything for you.
I dunno that’s just my 2 cents anyways. This whole conversation doesn’t seem like it’s progressing anywhere and if folks are just picking random hills to die there isn’t much point in talking anymore.
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- I am a tank and only play a tank
- There isn’t really a shortage of tanks. It is only noticed in low tier content because the good tanks moved to harder content. I can agree that the community is terrible to new and learning tanks, but that’s not really Blizzards fault. It’s the community.
That’s the thing though, I don’t think it would help.
If content is easy, people play as if tanks don’t exist. If content is hard, tank fails because they need to tank. There’s like no scenario where tank is needed, and content is easy.
Garrote/Iron Wire says hi. You bet I can, so can several other classes Paladin being one of the first that comes to mind. Keep in mind if tanks getting carried heals is usually 1/2 to getting carried as well. I’m talking about 9-10s for reference. You same or higher or lower?
I only pug and removing depletions would be a net-negative. There is only a short sighted benefit that will quickly be washed away with all the additional opened doors that will breed toxicity.
What the heck are garrote / iron wire? (I’m sure, it’s an ability from something.) But it’s really not one of the concerning ones, or ones to pay attention to.
(Have timed +11, and untimed 12s.)
The result is the same and what matters to me. I don’t care about semantics.
We have no idea how often this would occur, as it has never been tested.
Why should people start their own groups and risk their own key then? If you’re not okay with the entire group having their key depleted because of someone incompetent in the group, then you shouldn’t be okay with having the leader have theirs depleted either. Why should I risk running my own key and starting my own group if someone out there can’t do mechanics and may cause my key to fail? This goes beyond the key holder being the incompetent member of the group.
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Because you don’t need to wait in LFG, and it has a higher chance of success. Sounds like a good deal to me.
It’s like why do weekly quests, you can only do it once per week, what a waste of time, right?
No casts go off for 5s, can be triple dr’d in open, plus damage redux. Literally a wipe stopper in almost every dungeon b/c it saves people from using cd’s on pull most times. Or you can pop vanish when you’re about to eat several from a group of casters as long as the DR has worn off.
I’m doing a lot of pugging, not sure if you have a reg group but that could account for some of the differences in skill between tanks/heals that you and I are seeing.
The entire design of M+ itself is toxic. Having your time wasted because people desert your group AND having your key lowered as a result on top of that is extremely toxic design, and exactly why people are so critical in M+ towards tanks and healers. Because people don’t want to invite a tank/healer and then have their key get screwed over, which is what the current system is designed to do.
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It’s not semantics and they are not the same end result. If you have 0 people being kicked and x people leaving now, but you introduce a new issue of x people being kicked and still x people leaving you increased the rate of failed runs and a negative experience for pugs. Literally not the same end result.
We literally know it would happen and I would bet it would happen very frequently because there would be zero reason not to kick someone after the first few pulls for someone better.
Yet you somehow think removing depletions would make it any better? It would breed more toxicity.
Why are you lumping in CC/interrupts with externals? And that’s a rogue ability, not priest… and not stonevault specific.