This argument makes zero sense and contradicts itself. If players are trying to get carried in key levels they don’t belong in, they would be the ones who would benefit from keys not degrading.
Keys never degrading is a net-negative for pugs.
Keys having limited charges are a much better solution that strikes a balance between current issues and new issues that will occur.
Two charges should be something Blizzard tests at some point. Expected impact, positive, but who knows.
So your argument for removing something is instances of them taking a while to add something… okay.
Making your own group in the sense you’re thinking is still pugging. Having a group progressing steadily beats having randos every runs.
Not if people keep demanding keys never depleting. Not enough people are willing to concede that there will be more issues and instead advocate for charges that are more realistic and balanced.
What would that do, except just attract everyone that wants it so it gets praised anyway? Who even does ptr? And has blizzard ever listened to ptr feedback?
I’m pretty sure I admitted they would probably happen and disagreed with you that they’d be as commonplace as you make it sound.
Groups already disband plenty before the first boss if you wipe on trash or if 1 or 2 people die.
Of course kicking doesn’t happen when its such a detriment to the key holder, people leave instead and its the same result.
No, they don’t kick if they don’t have a replacement available. You brought up lockouts for some reason that I was unsure of.
You know what all of those have in common that M+ doesn’t have right now? A way to replace the person you kick. If kicking people in any of those categories made you start it over do you think it would happen more often, the same amount, or less often?
Yeah, score isn’t a good indicator no matter what because you can buy it. So if it inflates nothing changes, its still a bad metric.
So you don’t run with these people. When you join their group you can see their score (not a great metric but still a metric). Blizzard could also show you in-game their dungeon history (best run for each dungeon). Also people already do this with their keys, and then just get their 9s carried back up to a 10 and try again until they succeed. Depletion doesn’t eliminate this problem.
If it results in an overall net positive for the M+ experience it does, which again we cannot know until its tested which it has not been.
The key holder is rarely the one leaving first. No deranking, they also will.
No, its Blizzard changing their mind/philosophy. Blizzard has made plenty of changes to M+. They removed most of the affixes entirely, which people were also against originally.
Yet they haven’t removed deranking.
So, Ara-kara is my weakest key (but also only one done on a 12). Now, how do you differentiate between someone who doesn’t belong, and someone progressing? Are overtime keys a sign of experience and progression or a sign that someone doesn’t belong?
Short of logs, you literally, cannot tell.
Oof, I actually like NW, Ara Kara’s last boss gives me PTSD. Been in too many all melee groups in there lol.
I could see someone making the argument that the keystone system prevents you from cherry picking dungeons to just do the ones you think are easier for your group – but people already do that kinda thing anyways by just running someone elses key.
I could also see the argument that pushing a single key as far as you can is “gameplay” but… again – you can always just run someone elses keystone at whatever level you can get into if you’re willing to PUG someone.
I mean, with that mentality why have a PTR. Why test anything, why have ideas, why think. Why try anything. I dunno – I’m not getting the resistance to trying things. It’s just being obstinate to be obstinate. Who knows – you might like it.
Don’t try to back pedal.
Again, there’s a clear distinction between groups disbanding versus people getting kicked.
People leaving happens now and will continue to happen if keys don’t deplete.
People don’t get kicked now and will get kicked if key don’t deplete.
You are literally adding another layer of challenges for pugs and only pugs that will breed more toxicity.
It’s clear from today and yesterday that you are incapable of separating different arguments. You literally can’t comprehend the difference from someone being kicked versus people choosing to leave.
Score is a good indicator, but it depends on the score range and how far into the season it is. People can buy score, but that is why it’s important to use other metrics like how many timed runs they have in the key bracket.
Ptr is to test bugs mostly, it’s rarely to test new ideas. I don’t think there were ever a situation where a new major system or changed was implemented in ptr to never make it to live.
Of course not because their key depletes.
Oh no, the number of people willing to leave increased from 4 to 5, or 80% to 100%. Its the end of M+ if Blizzard does that. /s
Heres a fair proposition. If you run a key and it depletes, then have everyone’s key deplete to the same level as the key holder. Your fine with depletion for failing afterall, are you not?
What difference does that make. The whole point of a PTR is to make things available for play testing.
It isn’t mandatory for what is on the PTR to go to live.
Make the game less toxic and more accepting of new or ignorant people. I got kicked on my druid while doing a time walking dungeon. I had heard that the community is absolutely terrible to new tanks, but I assumed being able to hold a crap ton of mobs with my defensives up and my self healing using all my CDs and not letting mobs slip away and stay in healing circles and dps consecrations etc. Was enough, but clearly, I suck and should be kicked with absolutely no feedback as to how I can improve. And they wonder why people like my don’t even bother with M+. You guys do a great job advertising solo play. That’s all I’m going to say.
The problem with this is that it disincentivizes pugging to a large degree, but it’s fine conceptually. Diablo 3 used this system.
I’m a DK, AMS and DA go brr.
Exactly.
You are in the wrong thread. This is about M+, not queued content.
The answer here is… be in a guild. Thanks everyone for playing, this post was brought to you by the letters C,H, & T as well as the number 42.