I don’t know the specific reasons since I don’t play ret so maybe you know something I don’t.
However, I don’t need to play Ret to see rets consistently top damage and kills in most BGs I’ve done, or at least up there with hunters and locs, and every SS I’ve done with a ret in it since patch.
I’m happy many rets are enjoying the rework and I want rets to be competitive just like I wish my main spec, enhance, was in PVP but even if “OVERALL” their dps is lower than some classes as you say, the problem is the very high, relatively short CD burst that is really frustrating to deal with. That needs to be toned down at least a bit.
I just played a BG where none of the rets were top damage. Boomkin, warlocks, hunters, and warriors were above every Ret pally in the game.
I’m not saying it’s not okay either, BGs are a terrible judge of who’s doing too much damage.
Ret pally damage is ok overall, they just needed to address the fact that multiple abilities can hit you in one global due to procs and multipliers which they’ve already done but may need more tuning.
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I think most complaints are from arena. With a lot of space and a lot of teammates, a single ret is less of a factor in a BG.
He proves a solid point. Even in 2 vs. 2s, and 3 vs. 3s, they’re average. The only people complaining are Solos. Once you learn how to counter Rets and their burst damage, it’s easy to beat them.
When a Ret pops wings, you slow them and stun them. When it’s down, you attack them. Their DPS is below average when not bursting. It’s high when they’re using all their burst abilities. Overall, it evens out.
Nerfing Rets further will put them in a lower bracket. I want to say upper-B to lower-A. Possibly Mid-A. We’ll figure it out on Tuesday. I think Blizz should have stuck to their guns and made Ret Paladin’s DPS more consistent, with some burst damage.
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Uh, wings lasts 24 seconds and is up every minute. And you make it sound like the ret doesn’t have tools to deal with CCs.
They are still very strong, it’s just less noticeable to have one in a BG.
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Yet, they average out in DPS overall… That’s why I said, “Blizz should have stuck to their guns and made Ret Paladin’s DPS more consistent.” If they did that, the burst damage would be reduced because they would have overall more consistent damage and people would be happier. They could even move Avenging Wrath to a 2-minute cooldown because the DPS would be more consistent.
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That does the opposite of making it more consistent.
Avenging Wrath takes 2 minutes to recast and does equal to the other top-tier burst damage. + Consistent non-burst DPS equal to consistent top-tier damage. = DPS overall is consistent.
That equation is pretty simple to understand, Lastarria…
Having wings up for 40% of the time is more consistent than having it for 20% of the time.
Unless you mean more consistent with other specs 2min burst CDs?
I do not think you understand what he is saying.
consistant dps means having dependable damage outside of burst cycles (using CD’s) With CD’s only being smaller dps increases to do some spike damage.
Ret’s is the opposite of this in his definition, we do wet noodle damage outside of our burst cycle. This is something we had hoped for would be majorly fixed in the rework, but they played a “gotcha” at the last second in the ptr cycle and reversed it back to wet noodle damage outside of our “burst cycle”.
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Unfortunately ret is not permitted to be good for a useful duration of time. The nerfs were massive and the more recent buffs I dont feel in pvp.
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Ret feels better than the weakest specs by a mile but wildly inadequate against the big top 6 specs. If you PVP and climbed a bit in rating during the pally god mode 4 days, youll notice even after the buff a couple days ago Ret does maybe 2/3 of the damage required to be S tier and has probably 1/2 the survivability to be S tier. Id say its B tier now, lacking mobility, MS, adequate cc, and damage uptime the actual S tier specs have. All the tier lists calling Rets S tier fail to acknowledge, a Ret you kill easily does no damage. Having ok damage if left to do what we want isnt the reality of pvp above 1500 rating. If I had free reign to “fix” Retribution it could be done by just removing pvp specific nerfs and giving us the option to spend two talent points on either, a heroic leap with two charges or a charge with two charges, we wouldnt need both, nor intervene because of our new found range on damage but some amount of instant relocation is needed to hope to harm, mages, warlocks, monks, hunters, rogues, and all the other flee and reset or flee while nuking the Ret classes. That may be enough on its own, but if not I’d remove the forbearance penalties for using defensives. Bubbling because you see the enemy team pops all their offensive CD just to have bubble dispelled 1 second later and have very few available defensives remaining for the next 29 seconds is a huge pain point if our self healing in Arena remains ussless.
If you’re finding success as a rogue right now Im actually both impressed and happy for you. I have a max geared rogue and do no effective damage to an equally geared player, but at Ret I squish a rogue in the dirt almost instantly, consistently.
I think you don’t like a Ret Paladin challenge. I’ve been reading some of your other forum entries, and you only keep bashing Paladins. You HIGHLY dislike judgment dispel.
Greatbrae, I understand what you’re saying, but it’s making some people butt hurt. Some *PVP opposing players don’t want players to have that type of burst damage. The only way to remedy it is by giving Ret Paladin full mobility back, without their mobility spells being able to be dispelled, and ensuring we’re in line with the other top-tier dps. Then, hopefully, some people will stop crying. It’s, unfortunately, the facts because gamers want consistency. Anything past that normal range, and they start flipping a lid.
One thing I think Blizz should NOT do is cater to the ones that want paladins down in the dirt no matter what changes. It’s about time Paladins get to be up there with the best. I don’t care if some people dislike paladins or not. If Blizz wants to keep Ret Paladins up there, and I think they should, some players will have to suck it up buttercup, and accept the facts.
I’ve read some Tweets and some top team PVP players that want Ret Paladins to have an entire season of top PVP. They’re tired of seeing Ret Paladins at the bottom of the charts. Players are tired of the SSDD (Same stuff, different day). If someone says, “Yeah, it’s because they play Ret Paladins!” Ummm, they don’t play Ret Paladins and want Ret Paladins to have an expansion of their own.
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Any class that needs dots up to do damage or has dispellable CC HIGHLY dislikes judgement dispel.
It makes no sense that a button that is regularly pressed as part of a damage rotation has that much utility.
I would love to hear your reasons why something like this should be kept in the game.
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I’m speaking with Mes’ chat, and they like a Global Cooldown for dispelling. It would have to have its own spellcasting, but they like that idea. That’s a simple remedy to the issue you are facing, with the dispelling issue, Lastarria.
I checked the check-pvp, and I was wrong about the number. I was looking at the wrong location on the charts. My bad for posting the wrong numbers. I want to be as honest as possible.
- The highest Shaman, which is enhanced, is 3363. The player’s name is Aýanokoji and is from Tichondrius.
- The highest Ret is at 3421. The player’s name is Dopaminepal, and is from Shattered Halls.
I was correct with the Shaman number! I did look in the right spot. 
Note: All these numbers brought up are in Solo.
Solos:
- The highest Shaman, which is enhanced, is 2123. The player’s name is Aýanokoji and is from Tichondrius.
- The highest Ret Paladin is 2072. The player’s name is Angelguards and is from Tichondrius.
Note: This is 2 vs. 2 rankings.
So, you can’t defend it in its current state and agree that it needs to change.
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Indeed allot of ppl is butthurt about our burst, which is not new. Blizzard had always put too much burst in ret and then go ‘oopsie gotta nerf that’ while never giving us any sustained damage.
I also agree that some of the problems we face could easily be fixed with mobility.
I do want to ask though, if you reply to me to please quote a part of my post, as it will give me a notice and i can more easily read and reply to it.
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I will undoubtedly try Greatbrae. 
I try to put the person’s name to make it more direct, but I can certainly try to copy the person’s comment as I did with this one.
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I appreciate that lol.
Reason why i ask is if this thread get’s buried and some one responded to me without the forum notification, i would most likely never see it.
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