To quote the greatest warchief to ever live:
“They are no longer part of my horde”
Still done while a part of their horde.
In blood and fire.
That’s because they would be absolute failures in any leadership role.
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Nope, Sylvanas never mentioned it. Saurfang thought of it on his own. See quote below from page 11 of the PDF.
“The boy in Stormwind will not start a war tomorrow,” Saurfang said.
Her eyebrows lowered. “With Genn Greymane in his ear? We will see.”
That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of the fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwind’s few remaining airships destroyed.
There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduin’s permission, but as far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to same conclusion: the old worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde.
Sylvanas’s eyes glittered. “And the boy is becoming a man. What if that man decides that he has no choice but to launch a war on us?”
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She did it indirectly. Sylvannas was actually being subtle in the art of persuasion, let the person you’re trying to convince make your point for you. She mentioned Genn Greymane knowing that Saurfang would think of Stormheim.
And then she clinches her argument with her question on Anduin’s future intentions.
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It’s a possible reading, but not directly proven by the text.
Read it again. You’re not going to see it plainly spelled out. But Saurfang walks into the scene thinking to himself that he already knows how it’s going to play out.
one of the Highlights of A Good War and Elegy was jusy how much the Horde and Alliance are all snoopy up in each other’s business.
Spymasters have all the juicy gossip.
Uh, yes, that’s why it’s … not directly proven by the text.
Lit major here! You can’t fool me.
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I think that it says a lot that Saurfang’s first thoughts when hearing about Genn Greymane was “he doesn’t like us” instead of “why doesn’t he like us”
Even the most peaceable of Horde leaders seem to have trouble with the simpl act of looking at the Alliance’s people and asking themselves “why do they believe they need to kill us”
It’s probably part of why the Horde keeps on losing wars due to having muddled, unachievable yet simultaneously overly rigid objectives.
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Go back to school. You seem to forget that there’s a style of writing that includes not spelling everything directly out.
Most of the world’s best writers were anything but lit majors.
Most of the world’s best writers were worldly people with a multitude of varying interests and a great deal of real world experiences with other human beings.
IE not the kinds of people who argue about writing on video game forums all day
God, no!! the more the two factions continue to get PvP plots the worst this issue is gonna get. Bringing down the Alliance to the Horde level won´t magically disappear the writting that cornered both factions in the same dead end.
I´m with Baal, the absurd erroneous narrative must be purged with fire. Cause it´s literally impossible to salvage the image of the factions after the trainwreck that was mid WotLK to BfA.
And do you honestly believe that was reedemptive from an Alliance PoV whatsoever? Especially in the way it happened in the narrative?
Grom´s “story” is literally all those examples you criticize about “Horde NOT really redeeming themselves”. But then again, sorry NOT sorry, I don´t pay this game to basically have my PCs dedicate themselves 24/7 to kiss the artificially glorified “lawful good” butts of the NPCs of your fav faction (just like you don´t pay this game to see your PCs act impotent if not downright idiotic in regards to demanding common decency from the Horde NPCs and end up looking like a battered wife).
The only way to salvage this trash is with A) a reboot from at least end TBC times, B) limiting the PVP plots to small scale incidents and C) giving actual teeth to the Big Bad Menaces From Outer Space (a.k.a. the Legion, the Scourge, the Old Gods, etc.) so the actual big painful “we lose this capitol in-game” events come from them… cause then we WILL be able to get full retribution with no worries nor much less the ridiculous limitations involved in the PvP plots.
Let the freaking Alliance grow an actual independent identity and let the freaking Horde actually develop their WC3 identity without retconning it to WC2 times for the lols, period.
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True, Sylvanas was trying to kill Genn, a fair wartime tactic. I cited Liam’s death to explain why Genn was going after her. Having said that, to Genn, Sylvanas is still the leader of the enemy side of the war that took his homeland and killed lots of his people, the man has legitimate grievances.
I don’t think Sylvanas is trying to have clean wars when she’s using her own version of the Scourge blight and has been doing so since Vanilla.
To be fair, Sylvanas herself was doing that on Garrosh’s orders at the time (the war part, not the Blight part).
Using the blight is an underhanded tactic for sure but it’s really only used as a last resort to ensure victory.
It’s legitimate criticism to point out the Forsaken using necromancy and the plauge as being no better than the LK and scourge.
It’s been a longstanding moral dilema the Forsaken have struggled with the redefining themselves as seperate and better than the Scourge. The baseline has been free will… at least they had free will… this new Jailer lore muddies the water of free will.
After someone attempts to assassinate a head of state during a demonic interstellar invasion, the “why” matters less.
It is plain that their hatred is what drives them.
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Maybe the Horde should reflect on the fact that its tendency to rampage across continents destroying kingdoms has resulted in it being treated as an equal threat to demonic interstellar invaders.
Instead of what the Horde actually did, which was use it as a justification to rampage across a continent and destroy a kingdom.
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“There’s just nothing that we can do in the face of such hatred” said the Orc as he cleaved the villagers apart in front of their children
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It used to be last resort, not so much now.
That last paragraph is fodder for a good story which I wish was explored more in WoW, and could actually factor into a Forsaken redemption story arc.
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