I didn’t say the Horde needed to leave. I said that they needed to accept and respect the Alliance’s legitimate claims and the right of the Alliance to live on what are their lands as well.
The only reason you can’t accept this is because you don’t believe that the Forsaken did anything wrong, and if that’s your belief then there’s no redemption to be found as long as you hold it.
This is a sensitive topic for me I’ll let it be for now. But will we revisit this arguement once it becomes relevant again in the future.
The Scourge has to be removed first. If Calia can convince the Forsaken and the Alliance to work together to restore Lordaeron first…BIG IF.
You know I’m not holding my breath that the living and undead can find unity in culture but I have no choice but to wait and see.
But, at least from the posts I’ve read here, I don’t think the majority of night elf and worgen posters (back when those were still a thing here) would be satisfied with that. Night elves are all about Castle Doctrine and worgen were initially pitched to be as villainous as Cata-and-beyond forsaken.
I think at least once, I accidentally got one of them to say they wanted a morally righteous retaliatory genocide. That’s the kind of people Blizzard would somehow have to satisfy with “the horde’s sorry for real now and they pull out of their own accord.” And that ain’t covering the check.
I can’t speak for those people aside from that I disagree with them.
At the end of the day this thread is never going to work. Simply because of the age-old principle of “you can’t please everyone.”
Some people feel the Horde is already redeemed. Others feel it’s irredeemable. Some believe it can be redeemed with harsh punishments or occupation reminiscent of postwar Germany, yet others feel it never needed redemption at all.
Some feel the Alliance need to become villainous to counteract the difficult position we’ve been put in narratively speaking, and forcefully bring back the idea of “neither faction is purely good or purely evil” that we had in Classic days. Others feel the Alliance needs to attain vengeance and go after the Horde until it’s annihilated. On and on and on it goes. Subjective perspective after subjective perspective.
At the end of the day, nobody is going to agree in this thread. We’re not going to all digitally hold hands and say “YES! WE’VE GOT IT” before submitting our brilliant solution to Blizzard. We will disagree, again, and again, and again.
And at the risk of being controversial… good!
Disagreeing about narrative direction isn’t a bad thing. If anything it shows that the faction war has created interesting conflict, both in and out of character. People have very strong views, and are willing to defend them quite zealously, which leads to interesting discussions, even if they do get a little heated at times.
We’re passionate about the factions we love. About the story we typically enjoy. I think that can be inspiring, in its way.
No, it isn’t good.
These discussions are bitter. They do not encourage objective lore discussions. They encourage partisan mudslinging. People aren’t happy with how the conflict has shaped the story.
Hey, that’s me! 
Nah my thread worked.
My first post stands as the end-all be-all compilation of every central recognizable narrative problem they’ve written the horde into
Past stories haven’t made players complicit or victims of an in your face genocide. Even the death knights get the benefit of mind control (starter zone) or a choice (red dragons).
Yes they have. In fact, this was the case in literally every RTS game and in the case of WoW, a constant element of Forsaken questing. Not to mention Cataclysm, where the newly added playable Alliance race was all about being a victim of a genocide.
There’s a lot wrong with the worgen narrative, which is why these genocide survivor stories caused by a player faction never work.
It’s true, I’m Kendrick Lamar asking folks to be Humble before me rather than remaking threads I made uwu
Dude you keep flexing on your thread lol, we get it, it was well researched.
My point isn’t about a list of problems though. It’s about finding a satisfying redemption for the Horde. The fact is, we simply never will. No matter how wonderfully any chance at redemption has been written, there’s too much bad blood now to ever write a Horde redemption that will please everyone.
Yup. I never really bought the excuse of the second language. I mean, i also don’t have english as first language. But the problem with Shernish isn’t even how he say it, it is basically what he say or what he is trying to say. 90% of the time, he just pop out of nowhere, whenever the horde ask for a simple thing, and is like ‘’ what are you ready to give up? Having Thunderbluff burn into flame???’’ or any other non-sense like that.
Shernish isn’t interest in any story going forward. I am not even sure that he ever argue about the night elf gaining something. All he want is the horde to lose or the horde to be destroyed and many time it isn’t even the context of the conversation…
I, too, am ESL. He actively tries to derail conversations. It’s tiring. He’s blue erevien.
Um. How do you define that? I don’t see Blizzard responding and doing as you guys wanted or what ever. Do you mean it was some sort of echo chamber?
I mean, it was big and full of info. But worked? It worked as well as this thread. Or most threads.
We reached the same conclusion we’ve been reaching since then:
He is a bit like Ethriel but with different goal. While Ethriel keep derailing thread by using the night elf and the genocide to fully her victim agenda, Shernish derail thread by also using the night elf and the genocide but this time it is to fully his horde hatred agenda.
Hey Baal remember when you insisted with 100% confidence and certainty that “March of the Forsaken” was not an ability in Kel’thuzad’s boss fight and was instead an indication of imminent major Forsaken development? And got super aggro and insulting towards me when I challenged your assertion?
I’m still waiting for my apology.