So would Tyrande!
War Crimes was awesome in that regard.
That title still goes to James Bond. 
The Horde can’t be redeemed so long as the most vocal elements of its playerbase don’t want redemption.
This will continue to make the Horde look terrible in the eyes of anyone who isn’t part of that vocal element of the playerbase but the squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess.
For those of you in the back of the class, Ainhin believes that the most vocal parts of the playerbase were not the Shoulders Off for Saurfang movement.
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“No honor, no pauldrons!” So obnoxious… and yet BFA was re-written to cater to that specific fanbase.
It was the most rediculous display of fratboy virture signaling i’ve ever seen. It was political tribalism, in the worst way.
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So the Horde posters ITT constitute a minority of the Horde’s vocal playerbase? Because I increasingly get the sense that your problems aren’t with the Horde doing bad things but rather with the Horde losing and the presence of people who point out that the Horde is doing bad things.
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So, horde players have only themselves to blame when they refuse to wear sackcloth and ashes for things they didn’t want to do in the first place and had no control over whatsoever?
Idk man. This is a game. It’s supposed to be fun.
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Nobody has any control of anything in a linear narrative. Sometimes I think that people forget this. No player in WoW has ever had meaningful story agency and there was never any promise that they would, yet there are plenty of people (on both factions) that act like story developments are some kind of nullification of personal narrative influence that they never had.
So if influence basically comes down to “what people are loud about on forums” then right now, the loudest people seem to be the ones complaining about the Horde having to do anything to atone for the previous actions of the faction in the narrative.
Would it help if the Horde’s redemption arc was literally only seen by Alliance players?
What is your idea of atonement?
Bounce some ideas around and see if it’s something the Horde is willing to do or if it’s something we are open to.
Because we’ve suggested reparations, treaties, imprisionment etc, but that wasn’t good enough for Alliance fans. Only blood and humiliation, and being undeniably “right” will sate Alliance fans.
Narratively, that’s never gonna happen. There’s not going to be post first war internment camps anymore.
I mean, maybe, but it isn’t even. Horde players are right in the middle of our “redemption arc” right now. In the Ardenweald campaign I help Shandris and Tyrande, who both hate my guts for obvious reasons, and rescue Night Elf souls from the Maw. I rescue Jaina who killed Rastakhan.
We are all fighting Sylvanas in the current raid. Thrall apologized to Tyrande on behalf of the horde in the SR book.
The warchief position has been abolished and now we have a council filled with people who, apart from Talanji and maybe Rokhan, sing the praise of alliance characters and do precious little beyond that.
We lost the war and the horde is dead and done for, idk what more you could want.
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I don’t think it matters what I want because any suggestions I make would be interpreted as a list of humiliating demands. And that’s just it; the fact that there’s an element of humiliation at all suggests that the Horde isn’t really interested in redemption, because humiliation is by definition an explicit abrogation of ones pride. If the Horde can be humiliated it’s because it still has some measure of pride in the things that it’s done, and if that’s the case, redemption can’t happen until the Horde lets go of it.
The Alliance cannot demand or force the Horde lets go of its pride in the things that it did and the things that it was. Only the Horde can do that, and if they succeeded then frankly they would have managed to accomplish something that you almost never, ever see even IRL.
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The Horde already is humiliated.
BFA was humbling to the Horde. We had a civil war and we are more broken as a faction than ever.
Horde faction pride is at an all time low.
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https://media.tenor.co/videos/11a5cd586b9050b1bdf22cf964bab674/mp4
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The fact that it can be humiliated is what’s stopping it from finding redemption. Reread my post.
Humiliation is an emotional response to the belief that your pride is being debased undeservedly. If you’re humiliated by people asking for recompense from your actions, it’s because you don’t believe that you did anything wrong.
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I’ve asked about that a couple of times in older threads, but from what I remember, the response is mostly split from “maybe, I dunno, they have to make an honest effort and not just because they’re afraid of retaliation” and “I don’t want their atonement, I want them to suffer and die as payback.”
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Yeah no, I read your post.
Maybe you should become a Venthyr if draining every last ounce of pride is important to you.
Horde pride shouldn’t be destroyed completely. It’s like losing hope completely.
Redemption to me as a Horde player is pride in my faction being restored.
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For me, personally, all that I really want from the Horde is for them to stop doing bad things. I want them to leave Night Elf lands and I want them to accept and respect the Alliance’s right to Lordaeron. That’s all.
See, that’s a problem because Lordaeron belongs to a Horde faction. It’s our lands. Alliance will have to reconcile or fight with the Forsaken over it. Again.
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Humility does not mean losing hope. Humility can, in fact, be very liberating. I speak this from my IRL heart from personal experience. Relentless maintenance of ones own pride is far more restrictive than most people realize.