I think it also boils down to personal experience too and player choice. Your PC could have sided with the the quest giver and thought he was a traitor and attacked first, or you could have gone to him hoping to have him explain himself and he attacked first. Either you brought them his head willingly or reluctantly it’s still the same end goal but changes with each player experience.
Regardless he wasn’t getting out of that situation alive, it was a kill or be killed situation.
Kill or be killed pretty much sums up the gameplay mechanic that muddies all interactions between the Horde and Alliance.
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Doesn’t the exploration book not really shed any tears for Garithos? A “harsh way to go but he was a terrible being” sort of thing?
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Any fact that I can remember, I believe to be true. True, I am not able to remember from the representative of which faction I received what fact, but it does not bother me.
Why is argumentation for the sake of arguments bad in a place where no one will ever agree with anyone and the same persons repeat the same arguments?
Because we are not usually debating personal feelings. Everything in this game is backed up by logic and because it’s a two sided story we get both sides PoV at any given time.
The writers do a lot to ensure both factions have a motive and cause against each other that is logical and reasonable and defensible even. Alliance and Horde are rarely ever attacking eachother for no reason, the stakes are usually so high actions are easily defensible on both sides, every action can be seen as a retaliation for previous action.
Lately, the narrative has started to call this “The Cycle of Hatred” and BFA and Shadowlands have begun ro have major player characters become aware of this cycle of hatred in attempt to stop it from continuing.
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What does personal feelings have to do with it?
Despite the two points of view, each side uses only its own point of view and tries to impose it on the other side.
No one will ever agree with anyone. How will my argumentation for argument’s sake be outwardly different from the endless discussion of the Horde and the Alliance?
Every single player playing this game has passionate feelings about thier own PoV. It’s only natural in an MMO, but this is also an rpg with a fixed story.
For example your feelings as a NE may be “this was an unprovoked attack!!”
While my feelings as a BE may be “eh, they had it coming for all the things they did.”
Both PoV’s are valid based on personal experience. The story and lore is just a paper trail of the cycle of hatred that lead to this point.
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…
So why is my PoV based on reading disputes on both sides worse than yours based on personal experience?
Because of the potential to take misinformation as fact. It’s always good to check lore. Part of critical thinking when experiencing a game that has multiple PoV’s is we can objectively view any situation from both sides.
For example Horde could objectively view the Bombing of Theramore and the Burning of Teldrassil as wrong.
This goes back to the dwarf. You could take the stance “he was a diplomat he was trying to make peace with the Blood elves. He was doing nothing wrong.” But he was smuggling information to the hostile enemy encroaching on thier land and spying on them, he was a spy.
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Here everyone refutes each other’s point of view, but the set of facts is more or less the same (corpses in Astraanar and the “spare-kill” choice). Where does the fake information come from?
From anyone trying to claim that the Alliance’s hands are clean.
The Alliance does also have blood on thier hands. They are just more covert at hiding it.
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Can I have examples of false information?
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That example of the dwarf. That he was there at Silvermoon as someone trying to establish peace between the Alliance and the blood elves, while being a darnassian spy.
The Night Elves had thier own agenda against the BE’s which was counter to what the Alliance wanted out of the situation. The Alliance wanted a northern foothold to retake Lordaeron, which in itself is a bit backhanded. The Night Elves wanted to destroy the Sunwell. The Alliance on both fronts didn’t have good intentions with the blood elves, they were just trying to use them as a means to an end.
You seem to have gotten yourself mixed up with the diehard Lordaeron Alliance fans, and that’s where you get all your info, so of course they would tell you the dwarf was there for “peace,” those fans will sell you lies because all they want is Lordaeron to belong to the Alliance again. It is up to you as a responsible Alliance fan to have critical thinking skills and can objectively look at any situation and weed out other people’s fan biases.
I used to bleed Alliance blue. I know how easy it can be to fall into the Alliance are the good guys trap. But it’s a trap of ignorance.
Shern you may be better suited as a Blood Elf. Thier themes of taking power without asking because why not? Seems to be something you are personally aligned with. A faction change may make you happier. Come to the Dark Side!
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How does the second cancel the first?
A foothold for the capture of Lordaeron? Something new, this was not discussed on the forum. Anyway.
Isn’t it a natural goal of any union - to achieve its own goals?
What do I care about Lordaeron? It is important for me to prove that the Horde is wrong, and where it does not matter, because it will be possible to “reap the harvest” and turn it to your advantage. Somehow.
I would not call myself a responsible Alliance fan. Rather, “an irresponsible hate of the Horde.”
Yes. The main thing is not to slip into the trap of the Horde “We know all the bad truth about you, you are an evil evil that unjustifiably kills our unfortunate.”
Hmm … The trap of the “humiliated and miserable”?
I prefer the “mocking impunity” theme.
If you go to the Horde, then to the goblins.
A night elf / goblin hybrid would be perfect. Endless resources and the madness of trading, isn’t that a joy?
The Sunwell was already gone. It’s not properly explained why the Night Elves are not only Intel gathering but doing so with military forces and camps, but I suspect it’s due to the fel that most Blood Elves seemed oblivious to. While ultimately I think it’s not really the right thing to do before at least just trying to talk to them, I wouldn’t assume it was just about hitting the Blood Elves while they are down.
So does that mean the Burning of Teldrassil was okay? The Horde was just securing Kalimdor and Azerite for the Horde.
You can’t cherry pick. Either they are both just doing what they need to as individual factions to survive and everything is acceptable…
Or they are both wrong.
There is no way the Alliance is right and the Horde is wrong. This is a two sided story.
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What does this have to do with it? The Horde made no attempt to form an alliance with the night elves.
Yep. I believe the exact quote is " a terrible fate but better than he deserved." Nobody shed a single tear for Garithos.
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The Cenarion Circle did.
We have druid only areas that cross faction lines.
Anew.
When concluding an alliance, both parties pursue their own goals. There is nothing condemnable in this.
How does this relate to the burning of Teldrassil if the Horde hadn’t even tried to negotiate with the night elves?
Since when is the Cenarion Circle an official alliance of the night elves and the Horde, rather than a neutral alliance of all druids?
The Night Elves didn’t try to contact the Horde for negotiations either. Between Shaw filling Orgrimmar with spies and Tyrande moving troops to Ferelas it seemed like the Alliance was taking military action against the Horde.
You see how defensible it all is?
Why should the Horde negotiate with a hostile enemy taking actions of war against them?
It all circles back to retaliation to provocation. Which you say is fine but it’s not. The narrative is saying it’s not by pointing out this is just a cycle of hatred.
Both the Horde and the Alliance are equally as bad. No one is right, and neither are wrong.
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