As the first three people told you: Because your efforts to enshrine your opinion as universal truth don’t actually make it so.
Feel free to keep insisting that resilience is someone Objectively Bad, though.
Well give me your real opinion then. Was it perfect? did you think class balance was perfect? do you prefer the game as less balanced as that more fun? Would seeing massive design changes to old classes turn you off from pvp or TBC? I was under the impression that in retail people lobbied for the removal of resilience for a long time. Based on my own anecdotal experience and dsire for balance and varied gameplay i think things like resil need to go and things like CC need a complete overhaul. Maybe instead of just saying " i dont agree" you give me some real insight as to why you want it that way?
In short they shouldn’t. If you want the long answer, well it depends on the barrier for entry and if after season 4 tbc they allow non-winners of the season to eventually purchase season 4 gear.
The thing is pvp gear and pve gear can be brought to pve and pvp. And eventually allowing people who want to pvp purchase such gear would level things out a little though.
They shouldn’t. Resilience is fine. Get over yourself.
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Thank you for the constructive and well thought out feedback it really gives me a good idea of why you are opposed to the idea of making pvp balance changes.
Retail has no resilience because people like you kept asking for that change. PvP gearing has felt bad ever since.
TBC has some balance issues, but resilience is not one of them.
It was in TBC, and was a core defining feature of TBC pvp. It will remain in the game no matter how much you protest.
I’d probably try what they’re attempting in retail SL with Versatility becoming a PvP-lite stat. Thus letting you gear up for PvE in PvP and vice-versa. Time will tell how that will work out - but in theory it will allow for PvP to be the optimal place to farm PvP gear, but also make it possible to get PvP-viable gear in other places + have gear earned in PvP be useful in other places too.
Even if it’s a massive success though, it will never reach TBC because of the #NoChanges crowd. Plus, even when retail innovates, the very word retail can set off some folks around here.
You can read more detail on what they’re trying to do here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-pvp-updates-incoming/645941
I will take a look at this it seems promising but i do agree that it seems many people are very closed minded about making changes Im not sure why but here is to hoping blizzard realizes they think they do but they dont this time around. honestly the more i hear about shadowlands the more im tempted to try it. I know i like TBC tho so its also tempting to push for the to make it great as it can be.
I prefer getting BiS PvP gear through PvP, and BiS PvE gear through PvE. One of the big distastes I had with Legion and BfA was having to PvE to acquire effective PvP gear.
PvP gear should be clearly superior to PvE gear for PvP purposes.
Generally speaking, I liked MoP and WoD gearing (both had interesting nuances for PvP gear). Having cheap crafted PvP starter sets, then honor gear, then conquest gear had a nice progression of power while reducing the barrier to entry (assuming you didn’t cheap out of getting the crafted set).
Was TBC resilience the best iteration of PvP gear? No, but it was a start to ensuring the best PvP gear came from PvP activities.
Should Blizzard try to fiddle around with things for the sake of balance? Nah. It should be true to TBC. Save the revisioning to a future reforged version.
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I feel like the main reason is that there are simply so many people, that any changes will not match the preferences of many.
Which is why later expansions changed it, but not before. Don’t touch my Resilience, I don’t want to be crit while Bear Tanking in TBC.
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You want some balance? Here’s some issues from a non-delusional player with actual experience :
Nerf arena water by 20%. Mostly impacts druids and to a lesser degree Priests, the 2 best healers in TBC.
Put Insect Swam deeper in the balance tree. No reason deep resto should have access to it.
Make poisons independent of weapons. Shiv meta is cancer, and rogues having access to every poison on demand shouldn’t be a thing.
Remove dispel protection, but make dispels cost twice as much.
Feint no longer consumes Intervene. You should have to hit the target to remove intervene, as intended.
Make fear break after a certain damage threshold.
Make paladin wings non-dispellable for 5 seconds.
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So essentially people complain less about no change than changes? I dont see that as a good reason. I would understand people wanting nostaglia or not wanting them to mess it up but for all the things that were amzing about TBC pvp is was always really poorly balanced. Every season had different balance issues but i think if we do want to fix balance it makes sense to think about redoing the system now before its too late later and they have to make bad changes like simply getting backed into a corner where we are nerfing it by numbers and spot nerfing classes.
billgates i do like those ideas that’s the kind of thing Im looking for. I want TBC pvp i just want a more balanced flavor that makes sense and utilizes our years of knowledge instead of casting them aside
Yes, absolutely.
I’m looking forward to the old (not-PvP-specific, reduces change of being critted and duration of DoTs) version of resilience, and also I don’t trust the current Blizzard developers as far as I could throw them to make changes. What Modern players lobbied for doesn’t matter to me; Modern players also lobbied for quick and impersonal dungeon groups, a massive focus on raiding, the removal of all those talents that “no one,” as defined by the Elitist Jerks website, took, and the Alliance being turned into white-hat heroes; if you want to play the game they were pushing for, you can do that right now, without calling for changes to any version of Classic.
I would rather pvp and not get blown up in 1.5 seconds like we do in Classic thank you very much.
PvP in TBC > PvP in Classic.
Resilience lowers your chance to be crit, as well as the damage you take from crits. We don’t want 20 minute arena matches like in retail but we don’t want 2 second arena matches which is what you’d get without resilience in TBC Classic. There is no need for anyone at blizzard to rework stats for a 15 year old expansion.
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I agree with all of this other than the fact only resilience can get you to that ideal result. I want the same thing as you i just don’t think we need to limit ourselves in how we get there.
@ arin that is a legit opinion i can respect thanks for sharing instead of just yelling no.
ok well, the entire reason resil was added was to make pve gear not work in pve. in classic stamina is the defense stat. when i used to solo MC and this cloth armor would drop with like 30 stam and 9 int, it was like, no one would ever equip this. of course retail is all about throughput, glass cannon meta. a toothless fortress toon wouldn’t be viable because they couldn’t outdps bandages once a minute. but a glass cannon isn’t viable because of broken cc. you have to outlast a cc chain, or outlast a cc chain on your healer. some say that pvp should have been a separate game entirely. in retail, abilities and talents work differently in pvp. i wish it was the other way around, no dichotomy at all. imagine two raiders going at it, both in raid gear. no pvp specific gear exists. just reel in cc. anyway, pvp is organically different from pve. players can counter abilities at will, bosses can’t. players try to get behind you, mobs don’t. players focus the healer, mobs don’t. not surprisingly, gear that works in raids doesn’t hold up in pvp. players would stack stamina anyway. continuing that trend, pvp gear is more defensive. as is should be. example, i try to heal a warrior in arathi basin. but he dies before the 2.5 second cast finishes. faranbalans? so naturally dedicated pvp gear is designed to slow the fights down. dying in the opening kidney shot is not fun nor engaging. opening with kidney shouldn’t be the correct strategy, and 100-0 in 5 seconds to unavoidable cc isn’t good game design. if healers could be shut out and killed, there would be no healing at all in pvp (which has been suggested). one could make a case that pvp should be for dps only.
so to avoid 5 second ganks which is impossible to balance, pvp is artificially slowed down. you want healers to be mortal, but not sitting ducks. a healer’s mana bar is his health bar. even if a healer makes 0 mistakes, he will oom in a limited time. if a healer is up against the counter class, he might die with mana remaining. you shouldn’t be able to kill a healer before he can use any mana at all. so pvp gear does that. raid gear does not. if a raider really wants to do high tier pvp, he absolutely should grind pvp gear. if a pvp’r wants to do progression raiding, he has to farm raid gear. same thing. blizz just never found a way to make tanks viable in pvp because taunt doesn’t work on players.
You need some indents in that wall of text but i did read it all and i think most of us agree in what we want. PVP that is not insta gib OR 20 minutes of grinding So far the guy who linked what they are doing for retail seems the most logical to me. When i say remove resil im not saying lets all one shot each other or pets make PVE gear king. What I’m saying is it seems to have a very shallow design and assuming we do want balance changes it makes sense to address core things first.
You keep going back to “Remove resilience for better balance” when most people here disagree that resilience itself is a problem.
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