How Should they replace resilience in TBC?

[Painkillers-faerlina]

@Billgatez-kirtonos

Also, the only class that stacks resilience to 450+ are priests. Every other class will prefer lower resilience (sub 350) in favor of PvE gear to increase their output / mana regen.

This is so true. It also forces priests to play offensively with mana burns or risk going oom first.

[Lockzilla-thunderfury]

@Moxnix-sulfuras

Resilience was a pvp only stat first introduced in TBC and is widely considered one of the worst choices blizzard ever made. It created a barrier to entry in PVP and throughout its history has always been either overpowered or useless. Should blizzard rework pvp gear with more stam? should overall values for things like Crit on gear be reduced? How should the future TBC dev team tackle the problem on reworking the PVP gear system for TBC the second time around?

You people are infuriating. They are NOT going to replace anything. The fact that you have to be told a million times is crazy. What happened to our education systems.

TBC will be wildly successful just as classic has been.

They WILL NOT change it because they DO NOT have to. It is almost free subscription dollars for them.

There are a TON of changes they could do in classic to keep it running for years. Some of us would like to play our favorite classes in pvp in classic but its just not happening. They’re not going to buff Enhance, Feral, Boomkin ect… again because they do not have to.

Making these threads over and over and over is the reason they (Devs) don’t read 90% of the stuff that is posted here and miss the good stuff.

[Billgatez-kirtonos]

It’s already not strong enough to warrant stacking. Nerf it by 20% and it’s not even worth wearing.

[Snucka-sulfuras]

Okay…maybe 20% is too much…

Maybe start with 5% reduction, then toy around with 10% as well?

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Moxnix-sulfuras

imaginewith me for a second a pvp system where the comabt feels the same but full PVE gear doesnt result in you getting 1 shot, Where pvp gear gives you an edge but a highly skilled player can still win high rating games without it.

@Frosto-faerlina

Isn’t that what Retail WoW is?

[Moxnix-sulfuras]

Since they have made no promises why does it make sense to just nerf it when you have the perfect opportunity to purge and replace it? Simply nerfing it doesn’t solve the issues because its not a numbers issue. All classes should be viable underpowered calsses like boomkins should be buffed and crappy systems like resil overhauled.

[Meppy-khadgar]

Did you play and PVP during BC or are you parrotting streamers? Resilience led to give and take and actual skill involved. Wrath the stats got so inflated that resi didn’t matter. Everybody hit like a truck. Don’t be a sheep. I played it. I listed in my previous post what the outliers were. RMP is viewed as OP by people who didn’t understand that it still had a much higher skill and coordination cap than almost every other comp.

[Snucka-sulfuras]

Well it WAS a part of that expansion—and I would think they would want as much authenticity/originality as possible.

Scrapping resilience altogether seems too drastic. I’m just spit-balling though.

/shrug

[Graff-nathrezim]

@Moxnix-sulfuras

issues
1 Barrier to entry - without resilience pvp is not fun making pve players have to farm pvp gear is a stupid design
2 healers being too strong when they stack it, simply put they dont die easy enough in arena with tons of resilience
3 The stats is superficial adding more hp is pretty much the same thing but that has issues with tank gear and pvp gear overlapping like it does in classic
4 Part of what people liked about classic was raid gear was usable in PVP the TBc system makes PVE gear worhtless for pvp outside things like war glaves.
5 Gear should not be pvp and pve there should just be gear you use for everything farming 2 sets is silly

1. PVE should stay with PVE, PVP with PVP. They are different aspects of the game and balancing one against the other is a very difficult problem. You end up unbalancing one or the other if they share the same stats.

   Not to mention that PVP players with PVP gear should kick PVE players with PVE gear around, that’s the whole point of doing once mode or another. Spend your time in one aspect of the game to improve in that aspect.

2. This is a balance issue. Yes, the game should be balanced.

3. Resilience cuts down bursts in PVP. Stamina allows you to soak more damage. The two stats do quite different things. As you said, it prevents gear from overlapping between the different modes.

4. And some people also disliked this. If I’m a PVP or PVE player I don’t want to have to do a mode I don’t enjoy to get my BiS gear. And I don’t want some lucky PVE player getting an amazing weapon and rampaging in my PVP without putting in the work.

5. You’re just repeating yourself.

[Rotsta-wyrmrest-accord]

@Lockzilla-thunderfury

What happened to our education systems.

If parents would just read nursery rhymes to children they’d learn it before school.

https://allnurseryrhymes.com/if-wishes-were-horses/

[Billgatez-kirtonos]

There’s 1 class that really loves resilience and it’s priests because they have no mobility and have to tank damage. Even warlocks who are constantly getting trained prefer stacking spell power and use some PvE gear because raw output is just that much more valuable than “die slightly slower”.

Every other class already gems for offensive / regen stats and wears as much PvE gear as they can get away with.

At the end of the day, you can perform at maximum efficiency in PvE by only doing PvE. You can only perform at maximum efficiency in PvP by splitting your time between PvP and PvE.

[Moxnix-sulfuras]

I mean no i tested it and it feels nothing like TBC pvp even if im tlaking naked pvp without gear its not the same its dumbed down to the point of being pointless. I just genuinely want TBC to be great not just a reboot of something ive played on private servers for years when they could make it so much better . TBC/WOTLK pvp was amazing nothing compares but i remember everything i hated about it maybe that is because its more fresh in my memory due to private servers. We can do better.

[Jfat-faerlina]

I really feel like your opinions are based on faded 15 year old memories rather than fact. PvP healers unkillable? If you’ve watched private server arena games for more than 3 minutes you can see that Druids with 400 resil are still dying from the worst, poorly-timed swaps from a hemo spamming rogue.

No benefit from PvE because you want resil in every piece? Pretty sure every single class has 2+ PvE pieces that they really want to arena with.

Removing resilience just makes the game ridiculously more imbalanced. Rogues in PvE gear are already going to ruin arena games come Classic TBC, if they remove resilience it will be even worse. Heavy CC classes will be the only classes that can queue arena in a non-resilience environment, and those same classes are already overpowered with resilience in the game.

[Innocent-fairbanks]

Yeah, its good fanfic. Keep going im not hating.

[Moxnix-sulfuras]

I actively played pvp on private servers and the unbalenced nature of resil as well as CC is what made it so the comps were all the same. RMP and RWD mirrors for days. You have missed the point the overall tankyiness or any other vairable is manipulable. We can make that druid more tanky and remove resilience if we thought that was best. The idea here is not to make the pvpv feel much differnt the goal is to make it more balanced so all classes and comps are viable. PVP stats could just as easily be reduced cooldowns special abilities or even speed increases. Lots to be explored.

[Billgatez-kirtonos]

You may have played private servers, but I can infer that you didn’t play at a competitive level.

RMP isn’t even THAT popular. The ladder is pretty diverse with plenty of RLP, WLD, cleave comps, shatterplay, shadowplay, etc.

Also, you’re basically promoting the same mechanics that led to Retail PvP.

I’m so thankful that Blizzard doesn’t give a crap about these forums. So many bad ideas.

[Moxnix-sulfuras]

RMP was the single most popular comp when i played by far but i don’t think my twitch reaction time is very relivant to the discussion. Also note how many of those comps were based on “cleave” or rather nerfing healing becuase of how resil effects game play. Without resil we could see TONS more comps being competitive. its either that or you give every dps a way to reduce healing and that seems WAY more drastic a change. Also have to keep in mind they already probably plan on nerfing CC.

When TBC came out PVP was a “side game” they didn’t care so much about arena balance in today’s climate that is the number 1 reason people want TBC it needs to be properly balanced.

[Jfat-faerlina]

If you’re talking about making TBC arena more balanced at any cost, you’d have to use stat templates where fresh chars have same stats as R1 characters, disable PvE trinkets/any on use or chance on hit effect items, and make quite a few class talent/ability changes.

Rogues having 1.5min CD blind is one of the dumbest things in TBC arena. Blind, force trinket, literally do ANYTHING for 1.5min, and have an all but guaranteed win condition when you can Blind someone whos trinket is on CD. Making Blind 2 min CD and nerfing rogue damage by 7ish% would be a good start to balancing them for TBC.

Druids having TWO DIFFERENT DR SPAMMABLE CCS for almost 0 mana is also so unbelievably broken. You would have to seriously nerf Druid mechanics in arena for it to be balanced.

Same with SL/SL. It does too much DMG for how tanky it is, remove the 5% portion of Soul Link. Curse of Tongues duration is too long for classes that can’t decurse it (nerf it to 6-8 second duration). Fear is too much like a stun on dotted targets. You can 3-4x dot someone and just spam fear and they can easily drop from 100-40% in the chain. Fear should be guaranteed to break as soon as the target takes damage equal to 15% of their overall health.

These are just the short list of changes that would go towards making TBC arena balanced. If they want to remove resilience, they might as well go full on retail make all the changes I listed and more.

[Billgatez-kirtonos]

There’s a much easier way to nerf druids and it’s by nerfing drinking slightly. They’re actually not that good at healing; they’re just good at surviving long enough to get a drink in while most other healers are stuck in combat all game.

[Moxnix-sulfuras]

This is the kind of stuff im looking for real feedback toward good balance changes. nice post