I dont want that listen i would prefer PVE gear is about equal but overall slightly worse than pvp gear. There shouldn’t be a you need at least x pvp piece or your resil is to low to worry about. I understand its a complex system but i dont think simply nerfing resil will be enough i think it needs purged and replaced with a system that works. PVP gear should be BIS but not becuase it has a broken stat that makes pve gear worhtless outside of god tier off pieces in slots where you cant roll resilience …
Im not sure if its nostaglia or not believing blizzard can fix it or just not wanting the rules of the game you knew to change but how can you guys not want the number one issue with pvp in TBC fixed if its possible i dont understand.
Nostalgia? I just don’t want TBC PvP to be like Vanilla where raid gear is just better, and where it’s just a one-shot fest.
I like TBC arenas. I like LK arenas.
Seems to me you just want to play Vanilla. Great, stay in Vanilla.
I dont want them to. I love resilence and think removing it is what made PVP suck.
TBC/MOP are the two best Arena expansions imo.
I mean no i haven’t said any of that i dont want a 1 shot fest either. I want a similar balance and style but that is possible without resilience. You can make pvp gear have more stamina or bonuses that help players stay alive. You are being hyperbolic and using starwman. I don’t want classic pvp i want TBC pvp without resilience which includes a complete gear and talent overhaul to bring the dps in line so its not needed.
They wont replace it. But you can write fanfic all you want.
3 Likes
That’s fine. But its not happening because it would take a team to balance it at each patch. Entire gear sets would need to be overhauled. Talents, and class assumptions. Blizzard is not going to overhaul a core system of an old game like this, because then the original CORE system of resilience would also be gone.
You play old games to relive what they were like. Tweaking issues, bugs, and small quality of life issues is feasible. An overhaul of a core system is a core change to the game itself. Resiliance IS pvp in BC. You get rid of resilience, you will won’t have the pvp of BC.
I appreciate you and all the no changes guys leaving your opinion but i would like to get my thread back on track with actual suggestions. If you were the blizz dev team and you were tasked with removing and replacing resilience with something else how would you do it? To me the best course of action is to overhaul talents and gear in all of TBC to make it so resilience is not needed and pvp gear has survival bonuses as well as generally having more stamina.
also loki its not hard at all for me to envision a system that leads to a similar style pvp as original TBC without resilience so that’s just not true. What made TBC pvp good was quality talents viable specs battles that felt like chess matches not the stat resilience.
It’s not a #nochanges opinion. There are plenty of little things I’d like to see changed. It’s just that in my experience, PvP is more enjoyable when there’s a PvP stat.
What’s interesting about resilience is that it’s not just free stats. It comes at a huge cost. Anyone stacking resilience will be left wondering why they deal so little damage or why they’re always oom. There’s a significant cost attached to resilience. There’s a reason the absolute best PvP gear for most classes in TBC is actually wearing as little PvP gear as possible while staying above 200 resil.
A PvE geared warrior with 2500 ap, 11000 hp, 1600 ArP and 200 resil is far scarier than a PvP geared warrior with 1700 ap, 12500 hp, 800 ArP and 450 resil.
Isn’t that what Retail WoW is?
Sure, I get that looking from a birds eye view its easy to just say, “Well if we just do X, then its all good”. We all have fun opinions on how to improve the game. But for a systemic change like this, you would have to show you’ve considered how deep it would affect the gameplay.
Lets say we just add stamina on the gear to compensate for the fact that crits will be going off like crazy now, without reduction. How does that affect pve tanks? That much stamina to compensate would blow the stamina of pve gear out of the water.
Now tanks would have to farm pve gear for the massive stamina increases. Not only that, but we’re STILL stuck in the same position where PvP oriented gear has more survivability then pve gear, and we’re back to the same issue of those with pvp gear not getting blown up, while pve gear equipped people do.
I’m not saying you can’t come up with a solution if you took the broad view, but you’re not thinking of the entire picture. You personally don’t like resilience, and you want it changed. But you’ve proposed no solution which could be easily implemented without a massive overhaul to the core balance and experience of the game.
This is not a “no changes” rant, just me pointing out that you’re not really considering the big picture and how much of a massive change this would mean to the game.
2 Likes
I disagree that this was the number 1 issue (I’d probably say certain balance issues or the inability to have multiple teams per bracket was a bigger problem). If you’ve ever looked at the history of arena participation stats (I used to do this via arena junkies per season gladiator #s because that would tell you how many active players or teams there were by extension), you would know that TBC arena was highly highly popular and actually had TWICE as much participation by the end of S4 than what the end of S8 wrath had. By the end of the final season of Cataclysm the community had once again been halved from where it was at the end of Wrath.
Arena was BETTER in TBC than now, not worse. I again agree that resilience was not the BEST conceivable solution to the problem, but we should be careful about trying to allow the perfect be the enemy of the good.
#No changes and it separates Pvpers from raiders no changes
I mean that is what the thread is for not very creative but I truly believe it can be done. I do think all those things need considered and carefully but its possible i know it. Much like when i said a system was bad in clash of clans people asked how i would change it and all my ideas were lack luster however supercell did they found a way to do exactly what i wanted. I agree i would not want pve tanks looking for PVP gear as BiS so i know it snot as simple as resil> stam. I do think however the resilience system has through time proven itself to be crap and we should start brainstorming what a better system might look like.
@ puke the reason its wrose now IMO has nothing to do with resilience and everything to do with how the game changed in general post cata. We should not be afraid to fix problems because blizzard might make them worse we should be thinking of good ways to solve them so we get a quality product.
Because it would cost money to rework it and even if the changes were an improvement that everyone liked it still wouldn’t increase subs to justify the costs. And no matter what changes they make not everyone would like them.
How has resilience proven to be crap ? PvP was most popular in TBC, Wrath, Cata and MoP. These expansions all had a PvP stat.
Retail currently doesn’t have a PvP stat. Do you know what happened? PvP is largely dead. And the few who still do arenas are forced to buy PvE carries to get competitive gear.
You’re so god damn clueless about PvP’s history.
They shouldn’t, it’s a great stat.
If they are PVE players and they want to PVP then they should have to gear for it. No one should get a free ride in any aspect of the game.
3 Likes
They shouldn’t. Resilience worked better than any PVP system since. There was gear available for people willing to play BGs for a while. The grind is not bad at all. Scaling is addressed as the previous season’s gear is available via honor as arena season progress.
The cost of entry is less of a time sink than ssc/tk attunements meaning that the gear is easier to obtain earlier than comparable PVE grinded gear. Qualifying blue resi gear acquisition as a barrier is basically the equivalent of saying that leveling takes too long…plsnerf.
BC is the best wow’s PVP gets. Health pools to damage dealt ratio is basically perfect. Stam’s value against i-budget was lowered.
Here are the only changes that need to happen in BC and I will put a post up every day on the beta forums for it:
Exhaustion/sated debuffs
Targeted nerfs to soul link, storm herald, shared DR’s on KS and mace spec, and some way to nerf resto druids without killing them. Can’t be Mana costs, but perhaps a 10 second CD on cyclone. That’s it. Would basically whack all outliers back into line.
Again correlation is not causation your logic here is faulty im not eve sure their cant be a pvp stat but resil is not that stat. thoughout wows history resil has always been either overpowered IE “required or you suck” or underpowered “gem anything else its terrible”. Imagine instead of simply nerfing it the rework gear talents etc so you get all the best parts of TBC pvp IE chess like matches no one shots but no unkillable healers either. things that were OP like CC and resil dont need band aid numbers nerfs they need a overhaul and im not gonna lie i dont know what that is but someone has to have some good ideas.
@ meepy more like " i get anhilated in my full raid epics wtf?"
guys imaginewith me for a second a pvp system where the comabt feels the same but full PVE gear doesnt result in you getting 1 shot, Where pvp gear gives you an edge but a highly skilled player can still win high rating games without it. Imagine TBC like pvp but rebalenced so we dont get the same tired old comps as before. TBC has made no promises as i can see a TBC that blows old TBC out the water.
They should just leave it alone.
I think that resilience is a fine stat/mechanic…
However, it can get pretty strong…maybe if they just reduced the effectiveness of it a bit, it wouldn’t be as overwhelming.
Maybe make the chance to crit part of it 15-20% less effective–reduced damage from crits dialed back about 15-20% as well.
I don’t know…I think it’s still a good part of PvP/arenas.