How poor do you have to be to want dual spec?

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Kigelz-ashkandi

TBCC has already been completely redesigned. People are doing more damage, no world buffs, drums change, it’s running at the end patch. Legit everything about this game has changed.”

I ignored it for a reason. It’s a slippery slope argument.

Your saying “because other changes have been made, we should make this change as well.”

It’s a horrible argument because it’s relying on the slippery slope fallacy and trying to make it not a fallacy at the same time because I could use your logic and say, if we add dual spec, we should just add sunwell platue cash shop gear, and then you would say no, then I reply, but other changes were made so we should make this change too!.

No change should be made because other changes were made.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Look at that guild banks had the majority according to your information, and was still not added in vanilla classic.

So why are you trying to pass dual spec as having the majority and thus should be added?

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Hellith-area-52

This isn’t like boosting where you literally get to skip content, it’s just a major inconvenience to run to a trainer and manually respec every time you want to enjoy a different facet of the game and it creates an artificial barrier for people who want to swap between things like PvP and PvE. I dont want to run to a trainer in a major city every time i want to play the game differently for a few hours, then run back to go back, its dumb and an artifact of a bygone era.

But you do skip content with dual spec. You skip a grind. Tbc is about grinds. Removing a grind makes the content consumption happen even faster. Not to mention the opening of dual spec let’s raids optimize even more than they already do to increase content consumption speed even faster.

Tbc isn’t a game designed to switch roles whoever you want, it’s designed planning when you switch roles to maximize the use of the switched role. The game designers of the time even said no to spec swapping (which is what dual spec is) because they didn’t want people switching 10 times a day whenever they wanted with no real cost or downside. Dual spec goes against the design goals of the devs that made tbc. And any change made should NEVER go directly against the design of the game.

No Dual Specs - Blue response inside

bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/98646792-we-need-free-respecs-or-spec-swapping/ Here you go, I’ll quote it here: This has been addressed many times before and I have to tell you, the answer is still “no” to both for the same reasons we’ve always given. There should be real investment into choosing a spec and reducing the cost or making it easy to do simple swaps would make the whole purpose moot. You’re assuming a bit much here. Your assumption is that we haven’t asked this question many ti…

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

Because they said:

This is a modern community, very different from the community that played the game back in 2007, and making sure that we’re servicing their needs. So it’s a little different than our mantra of Classic of just #NoChanges. Like, it was very much just pure authenticity, warts and all, we’re gonna do it the way it was. This one’s gonna be more like, well what do people want from this game.

– Patrick Dawson, Production Director.

My point was to show your faulty generalization wrong. Players won’t just:

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

everyone would vote yes to free epic flying, free gold, free loot, exc.

They won’t. Flying in Classic had a 95.4% NO vote. The majority of players would NOT vote for free epic flying and other absurd suggestions. Reasonable suggestions like Guild Banks and Dual Spec get the majority of votes in favor because they are REASONABLE solutions to PROBLEMS.

[Andzelika-area-52]

@Delimicus-heartseeker

Reasonable suggestions like Guild Banks and Dual Spec get the majority of votes in favor because they are REASONABLE solutions to PROBLEMS.

No. They’re conveniences in retail that the retail babies can’t live without.

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

Guild banks have been in the game since 2007 and Dual Spec has been in the game since 2009.

[Andzelika-area-52]

Not in TBC.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Delimicus-heartseeker

They won’t. Flying in Classic had a 95.4% NO vote. The majority of players would NOT vote for free epic flying and other absurd suggestions. Reasonable suggestions like Guild Banks and Dual Spec get the majority of votes in favor because they are REASONABLE solutions to PROBLEMS.

You are distorting the information on that poll it was for Vanilla classic, not tbc.

Also, again any changes made should never go against the design goal of the initial game. We have the devs saying no to spec swapping from tbc, showing it is against what they felt was in line with the games design. And the bottom line of a remake of a game is it should keep the initial design goals in mind. Sure there will be updates to make it more modern but you don’t take out the core parts of it.

It would be like taking morrowimd, making a remake of it, and instead of real time action combat its turn based. That isn’t a remake. You don’t change the fundamental design of the game and call it a remake.

You’re giving parts of information to meet your agenda.

[Andzelika-area-52]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

It would be like taking morrowimd, making a remake of it, and instead of real time action combat its turn based. That isn’t a remake. You don’t change the fundamental design of the game and call it a remake.

It would be more accurate to say that they want The Burning Crusade with Retail Conveniences instead of playing the actual game like it was in the past.

Nostalgia is one potent drug.

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

Petitio principii.

I’m falling into a trap. The goal of you posting is to waste my time with circular arguments.

[Vellivanas-heartseeker]

how elitist do you have to be to not want duel spec

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

It’s not about wants.

If we let our wants dictate changes we end up right back at retail. Play the game as it was designed to be played or don’t play it at all.

The devs of tbc clearly stated they didn’t want the game to have easily swapped specs like dual spec. Dual spec goes against the design goals of tbc.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

I’m not the one refusing to accept a very clear statement of the devs from tbc about their design goals and feeling on a swappable spec system like dual spec and how they didn’t fit in with tbc game design.

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

2. The games devs intended for guild banks to be in vanilla but didn’t get around to it inside of vanilla life cycle.

Citation please. You wouldn’t happen to be making something up again, would you?

[Gendien-sulfuras]

It’s a numbers thing: The most expensive item you can buy in tbc classic is your epic flying mount and training.

Once you’ve bought that, the next set of expensive things to buy is gems, enchants, and other stuff related to gearing up for raids and from raids, and/or pvp.

After that comes weekly expences: consumes for raids/pvp, and repec costs.

Since you can’t really escape consume costs if you want perform well in raids/pvp, the only other major continuing goldsink is in respec gold.

When you realize that, you start calculating how must gold you have in terms of how many times you can respec with the gold you currently have.

For example, Someone who has 2000 gold can respec 40 times.

Now, that sounds like a lot, but once you factor in the fact that you have to pay for repecs in addition to consumes, and enchanting and gemming up new gear when you get it, and smaller costs like armor repair and flight point costs, and the fact that some poeple want to both pvp and raid…

In the end, very little of that gold will be left to actually respec.

Of course, sweaty players will have reliable gold streams, but casual players will be pretty much left in the lerch when it comes to all those gold costs.

And that is why they’re always whining about dual spec.

Just my two cents on the issue.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Gendien-sulfuras

Of course, sweaty players will have reliable gold streams, but casual players will be pretty much left in the lerch when it comes to all those gold costs.

I mean, I make over 100g a week from doing 2 dailies that take about 10 minutes for both. Your argument is acting like you have a set amount of gold and can’t get more unless your super sweaty neck beard gaming which isn’t true.

[Celldwellar-benediction]

@Stopdotnlol-myzrael

@Gaige-hyjal

I’d be more apt to pvp if I could pop in to a bg for an hr with a proper spec, then waiting for a day to justify the time/cost of swapping

You don’t need a “proper spec” to pvp. If you make the decision to chase the meta, be prepared to deal with the consequences of that decision.

You have clearly never tried pvp as combat.

Abysmal doesn’t describe how frustrating it is

[Arkean-madoran (Arkean)]

This is the exact same argument that was made back in the day when TBC was out…and we all know how it turned out.

This is also why it was implemented in WotLK.

I fully support Duel Spec as it was implemented in WotLK…however we are not in WotLK…yet.

Therefore I support another suggestion I saw: Put duel spec into TBC: Classic now but give it a 20 hour cool down or something.

[Celldwellar-benediction]

@Riger-arugal

@Evani-arugal

Help not solve help not solve

Help not much help not much help not much.

Your claim is idiotic as usual, you have absolutely no idea to what degree it will alleviate the shortage.

Tbcc even with changes is not remotely close to retail. Not by ten miles

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Celldwellar-benediction

Your claim is idiotic as usual, you have absolutely no idea to what degree it will alleviate the shortage.

Actally we do have an idea if how much it will “help” we can look at history of when it was implemented. And history shows it didn’t help much at all.