Each side has whatever advantage Blizz wants at the moment. Confirmed by BfA.
I mean, the Alliance has a sure victory. They loose some ships in Najatar, and then can’t mount a land offensive against Orgrimmar by themselves.
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Lol no one is arguing that it counts right now.
Yeah this is more thought-experiment and lore digging stuff than anything, and potential inspiration for any game writers who come along.
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It was never “theirs” power though. It was power of Azeroth - the titan. The well was opened by other titans to make the world flourish.
The toys such as hammer of Khazgaroth were titan creations - and pillars of creations. All these very powerful objects were made by titans.
At no point nelves were even close to replicate it, let alone create something like forge of Origination. Forge that can “reset” entire planet.
Nothing that elves made could possibly compare to titans. These are light years of difference.
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All men die in the face of overwhelming odds or surprise. Both in our history, and in the Warcraft story.
The many little people matter way more than the few big people.
I think the most we have seen it do it is make a door.
As others have said the nature of WoW is to return to the status quo of roughly evenly matched. Narratively the horde and alliance are always going to be the same strength more or less.
The Alliance did not win Lordaeron. They were on the cusp of defeat, before Jaina arrived, and even then, they were still driven from the shores and sent into retreat. Admittedly, it is to their merit that they got as far as they did in a Keep built to withstand 10:1 odd and win, but if the objective is to take a Keep, and hold it, they failed to do so, taking on extreme casualties with no pay-off.
That’s normal in an assault. You have to have overwhelming odds, because it way easier to defend a location than to attack it. Even without extreme fortifications, like a Fortress, you can protect ground far easier. In our history, they had to pay the first men triple, because their odds of returning were catastrophically low.
If by easy, you mean sipping primordial kool-aid and getting super powers, yeah. Nobody could’ve accounted for an ~ancient, forbidden ritual~ coming out of left field.
I see this a lot, but every time it’s used in discussion, one important part is left out; “but at what cost”. Even Metzen says it would be an excruciating undertaking (paraphrasing, here) to win that battle. King Pyrrhus would like to chime and say “that isn’t winning”. If you have to sacrifice your entire standing army to defeat an enemy, you’ve essentially accomplished nothing. You don’t have the men to hold the land you just fought over, you don’t have the men to mobilize and send to key locations to either defend or attack and you’ve essentially spent all resources you could commit to defense, to see it through.
The Alliance is not the standing super power faction. They just left the most recent war with conscripts and a very, very tiny mobile force, on the brink of complete military collapse- this isn’t to say the Horde is faring much better, but even still, their enemy went through some extreme meat grinders. The characters even say it themselves, Sylvanas was the only one who had the manpower to fight N’zoth, and that they had enough men for one assault, win or lose.
If they had the manpower to exterminate the Horde, they would’ve done so. The war wasn’t just gentle slap-fights, prior to this stage of the conflict.
you know its 10000years since the well right, the staff was saying, if they never lost the well for 10000 years thats is alot of time
The point you’re missing, again, is that the Night Elf civilization showed no signs of progressing to the level of the titans while there was still relative peace.
Sometimes I wonder if your just naturally this slow, or it’s something you do intentionally
My point is that mastery of magics and advanced technology mean little when it comes to power levels in Warcraft warfare.
If it did, the Horde would have lost the second war right out of the gates.
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its like you cant read, the staff said, if they kept the society that the nelves had when azshara was queen, and never summoned the legion
The Alliance won in Lordaeron. In the follower missions they control Tirisfal and forced the retreat of the remaining Forsaken. After that they send armies to Silverpine.
Also, we were talking about armies, right? The Alliance army crushed the Horde in Lordaeron, and even destroyed their Azerite tanks. Thats why Sylvanas had to deploy the blight.
We are talking about the entire Horde army suffering heavy losses against the Darnassian city guard. Imagine them fighting against the entire Kaldorei army.
This is just false and you have no evidence of this. As stated above, you can only say that thats the case of the Stormwind army. There is no evidence of any of the other alliance nations having problems with their armies. We saw gilneans and kaldorei winning in Darkshore and dwarfs, stromgarde and the silver hand armies winning in Arathi. None of those armies were in Orgrimmar as were obviously not avaliable in that moment.
The Kul Tiran fleet is even looking for Sylvanas in the seas.
In the other hand, it is stated that Sylvanas and Varok had to recall all their forces for the final battle in Orgrimmar, and Nathanos states that the horde depleted their armies and had to fight with civilians.
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True. It always has to be that way. Still, it’s fun to measure power levels occasionally.
Little to none considering the breeches in leadership that they have at their heads.
The follower missions also offers contradictory reports, depending on what faction you’re playing and don’t offer direct insight on what’s occurring.
What we do have, what we can see, is a blighted scar from the Keep to the shoreline, the FOB thoroughly destroyed inbetween, with the restless dead roaming the scar a-plenty.
Guards are not lawmen in our modern day. They’re trained soldiers. Sentinels are sentinels. Which brings me back to the point I wanted to make; it is super easy to defend a location than it is to attack. In the battle of Vienna, 16 thousand thwarted 150,000.
I sure do, champ.
Alleria Windrunner says that the Alliance has, quote, “precious few soldiers” and that only Sylvanas has the force to defeat N’zoth. She briefly encourages that they should step aside to let her. Anduin says that she knows that Sylvanas will not do that.
Alongside the opening cinematic, Anduin opens up with “We have enough for /one/ assault, win or lose.”. At minimum, across multiple models for sieges, that is 100,000 men, give or take a few thousand. For an army that is very tiny. Coupled with the fact that many of their ranks are being filled with conscripts (as we know from the cinematic post Lordaeron), those are disastrous odds that no commander would ever a-okay on anything short of a fight for survival. To win would be so expensive that there’d be too few men to muster and either attack a location, or reinforce. To lose would bring about mostly the same effect, but with the ire of an enemy that just survived the attack. Without that mobile army, they are effectively done for. Territory will swiftly be lost, when it falls upon them to defend their own supply lines, to attack nearby threats to the territory they protect, or when they have to defend themselves from attack.
And indeed, we don’t see those forces there, because they’re garrisoned forces (save for the Night Elves, who just stormed a beach head to attack a fortification. Here’s where it gets into speculation, but, on average, the casualty rate for assaulting a location is high and there is no way they walked out of that unscathed, especially against an enemy that wields the only chemical weapon in existence.). It is their job to hold that location, above all. They are the main line of defense. It is the job of the army to mobilize and reinforce these locations, whether that they’re under attack, or intend to attack a location.
This is also where it enters speculation, because it means two things. Sylvanas can recall her forces and wait out a siege, because the Forsaken don’t eat. They don’t sleep. They can’t be driven out by anything that caused most sieges to end (which was, most times, starvation). Since her agenda was to kill all things, knowing that she could lead her enemies into a fortress, she’s effectively won her objective. The Forsaken make nightmare conditions for any would-be attackers, simply by their nature. They don’t have to go anywhere. Sylvanas could have made a plan with this, and the Alliance could’ve very well just bought it.
What Sylvanas ordered enters speculation, as nothing is counted, but I could foresee someone who wants to cause death more than win a war could intentionally make such an extreme mistake. I doubt it was an order out of necessity, it’d be foolish to give up those locations.
One of BFA’s many inconsistencies, given that the previous plot was just about the navy being scuttled.
Unless they mean vessels not intended for war. In which case, it’s probable those sorts of ships are afloat, but likely better suited for gathering information, than actually taking the fight to her.
Not in Tirisfal. Even the Forsaken mission is about their remaining population fleeing the zone trough the lake. The horde even have a mission were you must stop an Alliance attack from Tirisfal in Silverpine.
The Alliance controls Tirisfal in lore.
Even if they are soldiers, im talking about numbers. The Horde had a litte number superiority (7-1) ONLY against the Darnassian guard. They couldnt had defeated the entire Kaldorei army and that is already an advantage of the Alliance (much more troops).
1- Alleria didnt know the situation inside Orgrimmar. Nathanos did know the situation inside Orgrimmar and he states that the Horde has depleted their armies and NEED CIVILIANS to defend the city.
2- Alleria is talking about the avaliable alliance army sieging Orgrimmar. Tyrande army was not there, was in Darkshore. Turalyon army was not there, was in Arathi. Muradin army was not there, was in Arathi. Danath army was not there, was in Arathi.
Did you saw some Draenei, Kul Tirans, Dwarfs, etc, in Orgrimmar? The Alliance had their armies around Azeroth.
You unsterstand that in lore the entire Horde has less than tens thosand troops (Elegy novel)?
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The horde had the element of surprise, so they were far more preparated for the war. (they managed to send all the horde to defend lordaeron)
The alliance got a city blitkrieg.
But then, every single battle ended pretty much in the alliance favor, even when they were far less prepared, they counterattacked and won pretty much every big battle. some of them phyrric, yes.
So in a conventional war, and the alliance NOT doing atrocities or anything to victory (to the point where the horde needed azshara and n’zoth help).
the alliance pretty much won with their hands tied. (like not attacking in the rastha funeral).
And they didn’t even let the alliance show what the other demigods are capable of.
so of course the alliance greatest weakness is probably their morals.
and we kinda have some examples of the alliance holding back for the sake of the world. and that sucks, i hope someday the alliance goes all out just to kill them all, but we can’t do that to another playable faction so is pure plot armor.
He’s lying. Saurfang plainly makes it clear that Malfurion is the reason that the night elves got the upper hand on the Horde. The only time the civilians “”“did well”"" was when they were taking pot shots at people swimming across the river.
See Terran Gregory talking about how Night Elf civilians have been holding off Horde soldiers over Horde soldiers’ entire military career at the Barrens front back on Post 33.
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the heart of Zin’Azshari want to talk with you, created by the highborne and able to controll the magic of the whole planet.
or the key of the three moons, the Moon Crystals could also use the magic of all the Leylines and redirect it to themselves, as well as an act that previously only Titans or Titan artifacts could do, created by the Highborne.
thats titanlvl magic.