From where I sit, those people are very much in the minority on this forum.
If her first act as leader of the Alliance is not to wipe out the Horde, then I don’t think (a lot of) Kaldorei fans will be happy with that as a development.
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You know, I keep hearing this and I never see these posters. Are they in General, or something? Are you sure you’re not taking posts that are joking too seriously?
More often I come across Alliance posters that think Horde players should receive severe punishment and humiliation for something that the Blizzard writers have done, and then get all outraged when the Horde player disagrees.
Because it’s always coaxed in terms of retaliation (we lost this, so you Guys should lose that.) and because, at least before Cataclysm, the Horde actually had less territory and less important characters than the Alliance had. The perception is that every time Blizzard balances the game to bring the Horde in line with the Alliance, Alliance players push back that the Horde must lose something to keep things balanced in the Alliances favor.
And you have to admit, the Alliance does hold the better and more aesthetically pleasing territory, as well as the more powerful and important characters who don’t have as much of a tendency to be arbitrarily killed off or turned into loot piñatas for a raid tier.
Honestly neither Horde players or Alliance players want to lose characters or questing zones. Alliance players act like it is a personal insult or threat to themselves and then act like Horde players should suck it up when they feel the same. It’s not a double standard so much as both factions have hypocritical players who are only satisfied when bad stuff is happening exclusively to the other side.
That’s kind of a straw man argument. No one is saying they want to be the ‘goody-two shoes’. In fact most Horde players are pretty emphatic that they want to be less homogeneous with the Alliance, not more. But the Horde of WoW and from Warcraft 3 in particular were sold as being in a redemptive arc. They had done wrong in the past but had banded together to try to do better. Yeah we expected to stumble a few times along the way but it’s twice now that the Horde has nearly torn itself completely apart for the sake of giving the Alliance their villain for an expansion.
The conflict itself isn’t the problem either, but the terms in which Blizzard has decided to coach the conflict. Horde players were expecting Cowboys and Indians, not Cowboys and Indians and also Imperial Storm Troopers and you can’t really tell the Storm Troopers from the Indians.
And yeah, it’s fun to be a Storm Trooper sometime but you know the Empire loses, where as with Cowboys and Indians sometimes one side wins and sometimes the other side ends, but no one blows up the planet.
So yes, no one joined the Horde expecting to be the goody two shoes. No one joined the Horde expecting to be the villain of the week, or a jobber for the Alliance, either.
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Does anybody ever want to be “the goody-two-shoes”? That’s synonymous with “prissy and unlikeable.” I don’t think even paladins (on either side) actually want that.
And speaking for myself, I liked the idea of playing out a redemption arc–of proving to the skeptical that the the Horde was not its past, that we were of value and had a right to make a life for ourselves. I don’t know if I can continue to play my Horde characters going forward because Blizzard has taken that fantasy away from the faction.
I agree with your second sentence, but there is no way a council is going to prevent it from happening if Blizzard decides that’s what they want.
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I’ll take this at face value, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything like this in the actual in game events. Are the Nightborne expected to carry the weight of the assault though? Sure - it is their city after all. But Tyrande’s distrust isn’t unfounded.
Agreed here, but Blizzard has continued to play into the trope of them being ‘unable’ to attain that redemption. Why repeat the same damn arc over and over? Like, let the Horde actually grow, please.
This.
And no, it’s not the exclusive and only reason, not at all. But that is the general appeal that most people will consider first off. We categorize and organize our thoughts based on stereotypes - and that is human nature.
We organize based on simple factors, like beneficial things, harmful things, good and bad, etc etc. Are these the only factors we consider? Nope. But it’s where we start.
This, 100%. Blizz’s story writing for the Horde in BFA killed the faction for me, and I haven’t been able to play my toons at all without feeling uncomfortable and sick. I haven’t been able to see Horde characters as capable of being heroes since Teldrassil, and that’s something I need to sort out.
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Well, to make it clearer, my answer to your question is yes, I chose the monster-looking faction because I wanted to play a good and heroic being and prove that those who would dismiss the Horde as just monsters were wrong. (Also because the friend who got me into WoW played Horde, but the redemption thing is why I enjoyed it.)
And yeah, I’m posting on a Blood Elf, but I also play tauren, troll, and goblin. Who are definitely monster-y.
The difference in our attitudes, based on your previous posts, is that you now judge and hate the Horde and its characters for recent story developments, while I see them more as victims of the writers. Or to put it another way, you’re still able to believe in the story as a story, while to me, the facade broke and all I can see now are the hands of the writers pulling the strings.
But I still don’t know how the story can be repaired.
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I certainly judge and condemn many of the Horde characters because only one or two stood up against a tyrant who led the Horde genocide. Yes, it’s the writers’ fault, sure. Yes, there was the Saurfang shoulder pads movement among the player base in protest - but I also saw far too much RP for my liking that was in earnest support of Sylvanas.
This has been like the Kor’kron fiasco of MoP where players took every opportunity to jump on their own faction and persecute them, and while that’s cool in concept, it sours very quickly, and it did so even more than ever with BFA.
There isn’t any way to undo BFA, so I’m just stuck where I’m at, and honestly - I’m fine with that. I’ve stopped playing content, I’ve stopped caring about where the story goes from here, and I’ve stopped caring about development for the Horde story.
Tyrande expresses disgust at finding her home city occupied with “mana-addicts”. Also if you listen to the world quest dialogues, there is a big difference between Liadrin and Tyrande’s tones and comments towards the Nightborne.
Yes you can expect them to do the heavy lifting but saying it outright that you expect someone to use their people as meatshields for you own people is going to antagonize them.
Tyrande’s mistrust is justified. If she chooses to act on that mistrust, the Nightborne aren’t under any obligation to accept it, especially when they have options.
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In a way, I envy you. You will probably have the ability to enjoy the inevitable Sylvanas raid. I will not, if I’m still playing when that happens.
I didn’t join that because I didn’t like Saurfang either. The Stormwind extraction scenario killed my enthusiasm for him as a leader I had any interest in having my characters follow.
I’d bet money that at least some of that was spite.
Again … I envy you.
I’ve actually mained Alliance since Legion, mostly because I got in with an Alliance raid group. But I mostly post about the Horde story because that’s the part of the game that worries and upsets me. (Alliance story is not perfect, but it seems like it has more ways to go forward and improve.)
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Apathy is all I have. Not buying Shadowlands, not continuing with content… What’s there to be envious of?
I thought the Sylvanas storyline was garbage from the start; getting to murder her wouldn’t bring me any satisfaction, it would just earn another eye roll from me, at best.
Wouldn’t be surprised, honestly.
And this is fair and great, tbh. Horde desperately needs better writing, which in turn will improve the Alliance story, because the Alliance is relegated to being a reactionary presence and that alone. The Alliance’s whole story is dependent upon what the Horde does first.
I’m glad to hear you’re at least still raiding; the only thing that keeps me around is RP stories with friends and guildies.
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how about alliance has better writting other than waiting the next horde atrocity?
Only story in wow not butcher these days is one not written at all
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This too, but it’s unlikely to happen.
Actually both are unlikely, but yeah.
Oh man do I feel this post. It’s like you want your favorite characters to be in the limelight, but at the same time you don’t because if the likihood they be killed or ruined.
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I was not initially against Calia. But Blizz had all of BFA to introduce her and the first Forsaken players can see of her is in Tirisfal. Where we’re mostly talking about what a bad deal Derek got and how sad the Undead Nelves are from what I’ve seen.
So, really don’t want her at this point. She’s done nothing to ingratiate herself to the Forsaken. Maybe through SL that can change. As for Voss - she only recently became part of the Forsaken as a political entity. I like her character a whole lot and think she’s a sterling example of a morally complex undead. However her being a spokesperson seems, weird.
But that’s kinda where we’re at now. The For The Alliance WPVP achievement has two targets now with Baine and Lor’Themar. Everyone else left, died or is in a questionable place of governing relevance.
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In what way? It’s stagnant between a high king who turns every cheek possible, and an angry woman who can’t ever be right.
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Mainly, in the sense that it doesn’t have a millstone like Teldrassil hung around its neck forever and ever. There’s nothing on the Alliance’s record that they have to recover from or make up for, so all options are open.
Apart from that, I guess it depends on whether you’re talking about The Alliance as a whole entity or about the individual members. There are (IMHO) plenty of interesting hooks in BfA for the various nations/races who make up the Alliance. For example, I know Mechagon isn’t to everyone’s taste, but I like it a lot.
But this is just MVHO.
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Well during "A Good War, a group of Orc Commandos took over a Kal’dorei warship, so you literally had Orcs and Night Elves in the same boat.
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Because players shouldn’t be punished for decisions the writers make.
That’s a pretty basic concept. None of us actually belongs to an Alliance or Horde. We are all just people who pay money to play a video game.
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There are some comparisons in treatment between mudhuts and the Kaldorei, but its only on the formers fantasy being built on a lie.
That said, I’m still waiting on rendered cinematics about how sad Tyrande is about Undercity or something equally stupid.
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Okay…but what happens in lore doesn’t always translate into gameplay. Nobody expects a Horde player to be doing world quests to help the night elves de-blight the land. My statement had nothing to do with player punishment.
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