We are just going in circles now, because you are holding her to standards that are near impossible for characters.
you make it so she knows everything that we, the players do
you downplay whatever the High Elves have done
You seem to think that the truth is only what is true for you
To put another perspective on it: Star Wars Obi-Wan told Luke Vader killed his father when actually Vader was Luke’s father. Obi-Wan’s response when questioned by Luke after Luke found out? “I told you the truth from a certain point of view”.
Back to WoW, Liadrin would not have to tell them that, but then that would be lie by omission if she knew about such.
Lol to luke and obi wan it was really personal, with liadrian its not the same thing, she is lying to get a faction into the horde, why is that a big deal for you, people lie all the time to make countries do what they want, its diplomacy
I got that feeling, ones like her make me sick because:
they don’t seem to be interested in discussion
they only care about winning
they seem to lack the capacity to think critically
they never provide proof of what they are saying, or take part in any discussion that stems from what they have been saying. Like I’d be very interested in why people say Liadrin is a liar, and what kind of lies she has told as I never denied she could be lying.
You literally said she wasnt lying, I said she lived through the era of nelves saving the world, I really dont understand why you think she shouldn’t lie, I am not saying things like nightborne should have joined the alliance and not the belves, I just said liadrin is just straight up lying when ti came to that situation.
Here is the first part I mentioned her lying, I even said she could have been lying in one of 2 ways.
Here is the secondL
And thrid
Hmm, looks like even if I said she did not lie, I was mentioning the ways should could have been lying.
Uh, I never even implied that intentionally. I was more interested in why she did and what lead to the lies she told.
If you had stopped to think, you would have seen I had not disputed this. My argument was always "yeah, she lied, or at least the possibility of her lying was there. But could she have lied because she:
a. did not know what the Night Elves did
b. was embellishing in order to better “lie” for diplomacy
c. lied to damage the image of the Night Elves to make the Blood Elves look better
To sum it up: we could have stopped this sooner if one of us had said “yes, she lied, it should not matter how or why but she did”. The reasoning and how it came about might be minor in most ways, but how it speaks to the character as they are written. If your only argument is that she lied, fine, I’ll concede that one as there is indeed evidence Liadrin did lie but I’ll still gladly participate in a discussion on how and possibly why she did if any are interested.
What is interesting is your considering hostile mobs to not be lore.
But here, since you like Warcraft III so much, this is directly from the manual:
As their powers grew, a distinct change came over Azshara and the high-borne. The haughty, aloof upper class became increasingly callous and cruel towards their fellow night elves.
Indeed I did, even though Irenaus already covered much of it for me, here is another passage from Well of Eternity that makes it rather clear:
Queen Azshara, who longed as much as he [Xavius] for the day when all the imperfect would be eradicated from the world, leaving only the night elves—and only the best of that race—to rule the paradise that would follow.
I mean, doesn’t really prove much. We are talking about the Highborne who stayed loyal to Elisande and the Legion vs Those to rallied against her, supporting an exiled and withering Thalyssra. That is why I don’t consider a simple aggro line from a hostile mod as evidence for how an entire races sees another. That’s asinine.
Not being aware of the War of the Sands, or the War of the Satyr does not constitutte lying about it. Remember there is absolutely NO contact between the Night Elves and the Exiles after the Exile of the Highborne. Malfurion even went as far as to seal up Kalimdor with Mists so that no one would find it and the land would pass into legend and myth.
Characters do not get to operate with the omniscience granted to readers of the story.
The Ancestry argument you bring up proves my point… Being Ex-Highborne they are closer ancestrally and culturally to the other faction that’s composed of Ex-Highborne… the Sin’dorei.
Except Kalimdor has long been opened up, as well as its history, to outsiders now. I find it hard to believe someone as high ranking as the fair Lady was oblivious to those events, when we the player found out about them with the opening of the gates of AQ. There is history books laying all over the world for anybody to pick up and take a glance at. Either she is lying, or she is extremely ignorant.
Being Champions we’re far more aware as well as powerful than just about anyone else in the setting. You’ve grown up in an age where information is plentiful, widely available and shared constantly. None of that applies to this setting where even the printing press is barely existant. Information is a precious commodity, frequently hoarded for advantage. When these figures of history meet up, educating each other on what they might have missed is far from a priority.
No, that’s no excuse. Lady Lliardin is herself near the level of a champion. She has been in the Horde since the events of TBC, more than enough time to learn some basic history. I mean, if the Night Elves are an enemy as well, as they have been to the Horde/Blood Elves on more than one occasion, it would be extremely foolish to not learn about the history of their conflicts. Saurfang participated in the battles of AQ, I find it extremely hard to believe he was not informed of the history of the War of the Shifting Sands, and if none of this informaiton ever found its way to the Lady, its willing ignorance at that point. So again, outright disinformation, or extreme ignorance.
You think of it as basic history. There is no such thing. Again, you’re thinking in terms of the civilization you grew up in… which does not exist in any form on Azeroth. There’s no high school, no university, with all the facts… not even in the magical kingdom of Dalaran, because mages don’t even bother to research history unless it’s in the context of gaining some powerful magic.
There’s no telephone network, no Internet, not even a Pony Express to spread information around.
No, I am thinking of it in terms of the game where there are books sitting around in various libraries and tables throughout the world for even a layman to pick up and read. I am thinking of it in terms of being history which, considering recent events like the gates of AQ, would have been shared with the commanders present to give them better knowledge about what was going on, information which is there for available for especially leaders and commanders to gain access to should they choose. If they chose not to by now, it shows negligent on the part of the person.
This is not an actual feudal setting. It is filled with an outright absurd mixture of various technologies and magics. There are space ships, teleportation portals, time travelers, alternate universes, etc etc etc etc lol. But suggesting a high ranking racial commander has access to a history book? You are really asking me to suspend disbelief now! Give me a break.
But that tech level isn’t consistent. It shows up in isolated uneven spurts. The Draenei may have a starship, but not one of them posesses a telephone or even a television set. There are teleportation portals, but the use of them doesn’t extend to the common folk booking vacations off world. All the things you mention occur in isolation with out interaction. None of it filters down the way tech in the real world did after widespread communication became a thing.