I’m going to do what my immigrant forefathers did and make sure this grudge is passed on to my grandchildren for no good reason at all.
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You know that in Blizzard’s eyes they considered it an ‘attempt’ to bring ranged SV to MM by adding in Black Arrow minus LnL plus random summoned creature, and by adding the nonsense Explosive Shot skill shot crap.
Affliction, Shadow and Demo are al primarily shadow damage. Destruction and Fire are both primarily fire damage. Arcane and Balance both have arcane damage. Elemental and Balance both have nature damage. You can do more with a spec than just basing it around a single element. Same goes for Hunters. Just because you aren’t creative enough to imagine how it would be done doesn’t mean that it can’t be done.
Well ya, you could also delete Arcane and apply its fantasy to Fire by just copy pasting all of Arcane’s baseline abilities/passives into the Fire talent tree, but that would be a horrible idea because not only does it give you a watered down Arcane with no talent tree but it deprives Fire of true Fire talents. The same would be the case for MM if SV’s abilities/passives were funneled into the MM tree.
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No, he/she specifically differentiated between certain roles as well as ranged physical vs ranged caster. Etc.
Okay…and?
PS. You might want to go and look into what archetypes we can find in WoW that pertains to the fantasy of archers or similar. There are a lot more than just 1 or 2.
That’s not what’s being argued here…
We’re specifically talking about thematic design and class archetypes and such. It’s about game fantasy. Not about group-based combat roles.
Not really.
First off, the arguments here are based on that we shouldn’t vastly change/alter existing playstyles in favor of bringing in something new…
Secondly, are you actually saying that it’s enough to add “exotic ammunition” to MM and we will then have RSV back?
Yeah, you clearly have no idea what RSV was about.
That’s your opinion.
But since Black Arrow as it was originally designed for WoW and the Hunter class did not hold the key design element tied to Dark Ranger-fantasy, that would be incorrect.
But if it would make you feel better, they could just give it a different name and keep the mechanical design, and that would be it.
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Yeah this is really my entire issue. I know this is going to be blasphemy here but… I don’t even care if ranged survival comes back I just need a 3rd ranged physical DPS spec for hunters.
Never before have they changed a spec in such a way where it changed archetype so drastically. It’d be like if they changed Arcane mage to a melee spec. Or if they changed Enhancement to a tank spec. Some people would like both. Doesn’t mean its fair. Combat changing to Outlaw isn’t even fair - but at least the melee physical DPS stayed melee physical DPS.
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Yea you think RSV was super unique, apart and so different while it wasnt really at all. Doesnt need much to add to MM to make it similar / almost same.
If you want a full 0 cast ranged DPS with dots, those dont exist anymore on WoW. Its no longer a thing. Closest you’ll find is affliction lock.
Was designed in Warcraft 3 with the Dark Ranger ability…
http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutral/darkranger.shtml
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I was thinking this too. I tried to level up one of my mages, and it didn’t take me long to realize that I just don’t like casters. I can’t say why. I just don’t like the feel. They are as different from a Hunter than anything else in the game. In fact, I play a lot of physical DPS classes (melee or ranged) when I’m not on my hunter, and most of my non-healing casters are sitting at level 100 or lower.
I think the reason people oppose this idea is that most of us (RSV) don’t think Blizzard will ever do a fourth spec for a Hunter, but they think reverting the spec is possible - eventually. I actually don’t oppose it. I even suggested a different class so they can do the Ranger correctly (which is what Blizzard is trying to create with MSV). I really think they could make a cool Ranger if they decoupled it from Hunters.
My biggest fear, aside from never seeing my Retail ranged SV hunter again, is that Blizzard thinks there are too many hunters compared to other classes and decides a fourth spec would skew that even more - Even though the specs typically serve an entirely different audience (generally speaking).
So yes. Fourth spec would be my vote if I could get one. Getting my spec back is more important to me than your spec though. Selfish, yes. But, it was my main for ten years and it is completely gone. You knew you were rolling a spec that was stolen from other people though. You made that decision, and frankly it’s something I would have never done.
And to answer the original question. We will probably argue over this until there is fourth spec. I don’t intend to be quiet about it because the devs need to know it’s a problem if they ever bother to read the forums.
I’m will be genuinely sorry if MSV players lose their spec, but not as sorry as I will be if I never see my Hunter again.
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Personally im stuck in boat i been class hopping for years and i really dont know what to do, shamans are cool but dps wise hunters can do more with less effort vs them. It sucks though if i went hunter i only got 1 spec left, when it used to be 3. I dont like msv style it doesnt clash with me, mm i have to gimp myself to have pet, im sorry i made class in first place cause of pets. Its flustrating, i didnt realize how much i miss rsv, if you had something you was passionate bout you would want it back too. I have nothing against msv or its players, all i want is rsv back and i will continue till we do.
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Blizzard should just bite the bullet already and bring RSV back as a fourth spec. It’s obvious that both sides in this debate don’t want to lose their respective variants as that would only fan the flames even more.
I honestly hope that the ranged advocates get their spec back because it really shouldn’t have been removed in the first place. And I’m still wondering why Blizzard didn’t introduce the melee variant as a new spec back in Legion. It would’ve spared us years of arguing back and forth in threads.
Anyway that’s my two cents, folks.
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This has nothing to do with SV (for me) but I pick melee these days for PvP and PvE purposes. I used to love casters, they were always my favorite. But as Blizzard moved more and more to builder / spender play styles builders for all classes, including casters became pitiful in their dmg output.
Casters in pvp are no longer fun for me. There are too many gap closers, knock backs, interrupts, stuns, disorients, the list goes on and on. It doesn’t feel exciting to play a caster in pvp when your dmg is bad and melee sit up your butt 100% of the time. Basically everything is just plain easier on melee these days it seems. Due to work and my internet currently I can’t really compete in any kind of rated pvp or raiding. I basically can only do my dailies and do visions when my latency isn’t 2000+. But the difference from my caster toons VS my melee ones in visions are beyond ridiculous.
For me, this is why I play melee characters over ranged (in pvp). I always preferred range for raiding though, hunter was alawys a fun choice for that.
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It is interesting that they seem soo reluctant to introduce more classes. I mean is it going to hurt the game if there are 20 different classes? Honestly I don’t know, but it sure would make this old game more interesting.
I do agree it’s strange that they would scrap a whole spec in favor for a completely new spec, when they could have added soo much flavor by making a new class out of it. Someone said it earlier, not all ranged physical damage classes need to be “hunters”.
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At this point, whether it’s coming back or not, it would be nice if we could at least hear SOMETHING on the topic from Blizzard employee’s.
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Depends on how they do it. If they keep up this insistence that all classes must be perfectly balanced then more classes makes that harder and will likely hurt the game overall. If they switch to the FFXIV approach where they intentionally make classes do less dps based on how much utility and group support they have, then no, not at all.
Makes sense, I understand what you’re saying. Maybe that’s been the problem from the start. I’ve always thought Blizzard trying to balance everything to the point of “fairness” was crazy. It just doesn’t work if every class isn’t the same. I mean some melee have ranged interrupts, some don’t. Some are tanky, some aren’t. I don’t think they could ever balance (at least PvP) until they come up with a whole different system then they are using.
This would probably make things worse, but i always wondered how rated PvP or even BG’s would be if every Defensive ability and CC and Offensive ability were selected. Here’s an example.
-
you get to pick one offensive ability, no matter your class from all the current offensive CDs in the game. So you could be a mage, with warrior’s recklessness for instance.
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you get to pick one defensive from all the abilities in the game. So you could be a Death Knight with Ice block if you wanted to.
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You get to pick one CC from the game. Think you’re a Mistweaver monk, and you choose castable warlock fear.
This would shake things up and possibly make more classes viable, but then again, it might just make everything worse. For me it would bring a breath of fresh air to rated pvp. My long time best friend has always played a mage, he does NOT deviate from that. We couldn’t play together for the longest time until I started multi classing due to our CC’s being on the same DR’s (Trap and sheep). It was always a pain to deal with trying to play a class I liked, but working around his tool kit as a mage. (basically I hate playing with mages lol).
This would also go a long way in Helping hunters in my opinion, no matter the spec. for the most part I love Hunter pvp, sure we could use some more on demand burst, even more consistency on most of our specs. But our defensive’s are lacking, and trap, although good, has always been a bit meh in my opinion.
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If people put as much effort into giving feedback like they do complaining about wanting ranged back…surv might not be in the spot it’s in. Ranged survival isnt coming back anytime soon. Why not try to make the melee spec better?
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Unholy death knight?
Unholy DK baseline melee attacks:
Festering Strike
Apocalypse
Scourge Strike
Death Strike
Base ranged attacks:
Outbreak
Death Coil
Death and Decay
Max range of attack abilities: 30 yards
All other specs are melee
UH DK Sounds like a melee spec in a melee class to me.
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First off, you’re wrong.
Sure, by today’s standards, the old RSV wasn’t exactly mind-blowing in it’s uniqueness. But this isn’t the actual argument. Stop applying the standards of spec design which we have today to a spec that was based on old philosophies.
Second, like you’ve said yourself, there is no point in arguing against the uniqueness or similarities of the design of the old RSV as, that specific design has to be updated to fit the game today.
If RSV was to make a comeback for the game today, ofc you could make it feel like the old RSV, but you would also have to make certain changes/additions to further explore it’s potential identity/identities. As, this is the philosophy of today.
Stop trying to derail an argument about thematic design and player preferences towards fantasy, into an argument about “easy-of-play”.
You might think that this is the case, but I’m not presenting my arguments or opting for the return of RSV because of it’s lack of ‘casted’ abilities.
Actually read a post which you make a partial quote from before you reply to it…
…Black Arrow as it was originally designed for WoW.
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Well ya… because ranged Survival is no longer a thing. That is what ranged SV was. Yet you simultaneously claim that ranged SV is nearly identical to MM? You contradict yourself completely.
“as it was originally designed for WoW”
Reading comprehension.
There really is no legitimate reason. It’s really just because they are lazy. They’d try to sell you some crap about “But it would be too hurd to balance!” except that wouldn’t be a problem if Blizzard stopped reinventing the wheel with so many classes and specs every xpac. Classes go through so much dramatic change that of course it would put more on their plate for balancing. We don’t need classes to change so much; just change them a little, add a little bit of new things to a class each xpac. That’s all you need to do and you could drastically cut down on the necessity to balance all the new crap you introduce all the time. If they’d have done that since the beginning and had continued doing it then the game would be better off for it since so sooo many specs are just hallow shells of their former selves.
If they cut down on all the needless and backwards design changes to classes and specs that happen every xpac, then they could instead spend that effort on introducing new classes. We could get a new class every xpac, or even two new classes every xpac. But no, Blizzard insists on just continually updating classes until they’ve gone through at least 2 or 3 dramatic reinventions and they no longer even resemble what they originally were. So what are we left with? A measly three new classes across fifteen years of content updates, and the original roster of classes being dramatically changed for no reason to a point where player retention suffers because of people’s classes becoming what they didn’t used to be.
Blizzard. Stop reinventing the wheel with old classes. Get them to a solid point, preferably one such as they were in the days of Cata/MoP when class design was at its peak, and then stop redesigning them. Then give us new classes much more often. It will bring more new players to the game with new classes, retain old players much more reliably and generally result in a more engaging play experience for all players involved.
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tbf, this could easily be read as being made originally in wow. It really depends on what words you want to put the emphasis on. A less ambiguous way to write it in text would be “the way it was originally design in WoW”.
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yeah i’m not sure the reasoning behind Blizzard changing up specs soo drastically after every Xpac. I think some of the borrowed powers becoming talents, or baseline is fun, but competently redesigning everything, every time seems meh.
I guess if you hate how your class plays (Most shadow priests right now) it would be a good thing. But for those that enjoy how the class plays it's terrible.
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