How long are we going to argue over Msv and Rsv

Well.

Truthfully? If I’m only thinking about myself, then I would say: delete MSV and return RSV.

But I do try to think about others. Hence why I’m asking for RSV to return as a 4th spec and let MSV stay.

So I think your position (“people asking for a 4th spec only ask for themselves”) here is a wee bit wrong.

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In that case, you would be thinking for your group of friends only. But what about the rest of the class / school ?

You’d have to walk me through this. Because I’m not understanding your point.

How is calling for MSV to stay alongside RSV’s return “thinking of [my] group of friends only?”

I’m sorry, I am genuinely not understanding your point here.

I try to find a position that supports everybody.

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What im saying, such change might look / seem simple within the hunter community, but its something that affects other classes, different aspect of the game, budgets within the buisness, more work…

It affects the whole game and those behind it.

Oh, you’re talking about the other classes. My bad, I originally read your post to mean the Hunter class as a whole.

Thank you for clarifying. :slight_smile:

People aren’t required to be selfless when asking for changes to their class/spec.

It’s a video game that people play for fun. If your fun thing got taken away so that other people who may or may not even have existed at the time your fun thing was taken away can have a new fun thing, asking for your old fun thing to come back alongside the new fun thing is about as selfless as you can expect.

The likelihood of a pure DPS getting 4 specs is slim to none, I won’t deny that, but don’t expect former RSV mains to sit and be quiet and let everyone else have the toys while they get nothing.

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What im saying, is they dont realize how big of a change they ask for. Its like moving a mountain for 10 houses because they dont get any sun in the morning instead of asking them to move to a new house or stay there.

It seems they believe flipping the switch on will simply make everyone happy without any issue.

Literally all changes would be this way though. You could use the same reasoning to argue that Blizzard shouldn’t make any class changes ever, or do any ability tuning ever, or introduce a new class ever.

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What I’m saying is that it isn’t the job of players to care how big the ask is. It is the job of developers to look at the feedback, and ask the following questions:

  1. Do enough people want this that we should consider it?
  2. Is it technically feasible, or could we make it technically feasible with the software engineering resources we have available?
  3. Is it good game design, i.e. is this something we should try to do?
  4. Can we do it in such a way that it doesn’t negatively impact the game as a whole?
  5. Would doing this require us to shift significant resources away from other areas of development?

I’ll give you an example.

I asked for Lone Wolf on the forums from Vanilla through Warlords of Draenor. I asked regularly, respectfully, and in the appropriate channels. Over and over again I was told by naysayers that it would NEVER happen, that Hunters were always going to be a pet class, and that if I didn’t like pets, I shouldn’t have rolled a Hunter.

Nevertheless, I persisted. In WoD beta, Lone Wolf was added as a talent, and I thought it was fantastic. DPS buff with no pet? Still get to bring the raid buffs a pet would bring? Can summon a pet in a pinch if I need one without having to respec? Awesome! Only downside was giving up a talent row for it, but I thought it was well worth it.

In Legion beta, when they initially had it as a Level 15 talent, I campaigned against it. I felt it should be an optional baseline passive, where you could use (or not use) a pet, whenever you saw fit, without making two dead talents. I continued this crusade in the Let’s Talk threads, in highly upvoted threads on every PTR forum, everywhere I could.

In BfA beta, it was finally made a baseline passive, but it was non-optional. I no longer had ANY ability to use the pets I had tamed over a decade ago as the spec I had mained for over a decade. Unwilling to be deterred, I continued to campaign for it to be an optional passive.

Later in beta, I was vindicated, and the vision I had for Lone Wolf for over a decade was realized. Had I (and hundreds of other Hunters over the years) given up when naysayers on the forum told us it was never going to happen, we wouldn’t have Lone Wolf as it is today.

And so it is with RSV. Maybe we get it back, maybe we get a 4th spec, maybe they make SV able to choose ANY weapon(s) a Hunter can equip and make it work (which would be befitting of a survivalist, making do with whatever tools they can find). We will never know if we stop asking.

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Didn’t they initially try this in Legion alpha, too? When they announced that RSV was going melee, they also announced that MM would have pets entirely removed.

Honestly, I think this idea is brilliant. I’d love to see this too! Finally give Hunters a reason to use all the mogs for all the weapon types we can use (and it’s a lot. Only shields, maces, and wands are unusable).

Edit: lulz autocorrect fail

They could do it too, easily. Less than 10 changes:

  1. Multi-Shot, Counter Shot, Concussive Shot baseline for all specs.
  2. Counter Shot triggers a 24 second CD on Muzzle, Muzzle triggers a 15 second CD on Counter Shot.
  3. Concussive Shot and Wing Clip trigger a 5 second CD on each other, Wing Clip does not trigger a CD on itself.
  4. Change all instances of “Requires Two-Hand Weapon” to “Requires Melee Weapon”.
  5. Change Kill Shot from “Requires Polearms” to “Requires Weapon” and “Melee Range” to “Weapon Range”.
  6. Change Viper’s Venom from “Raptor Strike has a chance…” to “Raptor Strike and Arcane Shot have a chance…”.
  7. Change Tip of the Spear from “…next Raptor Strike by 25%…” to “…next Raptor Strike or Arcane Shot by 25%…”.
  8. Change Birds of Prey from “Attacking your pet’s target with Raptor Strike or Carve…” to “Attacking your pet’s target with Raptor Strike, Carve, Arcane Shot, or Multi-Shot…”.

Bingo, now Shadowlands SV is fully functional as 2h, DW, or Ranged. No new abilities or crazy balancing required. Anybody can play with whatever weapons they want. Truly skilled SV Hunters can swap from melee to ranged and back again in the same fight as needed to min/max their damage output and group utility.

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Well, what are you waiting for? Go make a thread about that on the Shadowlands Alpha Class Changes forum! :wink:

Honestly, the only big concern I could think of is the slight balancing issues re: ranged vs melee. But I don’t think it’s too big of a deal. (Disclaimer: I don’t raid because I don’t have the time for so. So take my comments with a grain of salt.)

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I added it in the Blizzard-created Hunter thread, and a couple other places. Haven’t made it’s own thread yet, was waiting to see if it got any traction.

Hmm. Maybe after the next alpha patch is a good time to make that thread.

Exactly!

You can see my character and make judgements for yourself. I’ve never indicated that I’m raiding at a Mythic level, nor have ever indicated that I’m doing high keys. I’ve also mentioned several times that I’m not doing much PVP right now.

Also, this is my main. I mentioned several times that I quit because of the Legion SV fiasco, and I came back after leveling a couple toons in Classic. So this is my main (although I tank quite a bit on a warrior too), and I’m progressing with a group of people who just returned too. We earned AOTC last week, and downed H N’Zoth again tonight for the second time as a group. Thursday I will have 12/12H (I tanked a few fights the last time through, so I am missing a couple bosses on Danieltoon) and Friday I will be doing a few pulls in Mythic Ny’alotha.

So there you go. You see my profile. It’s public. Yours is not. If you don’t play a Hunter, then you are just a troll. Period. There is no legitimate reason for you to hide your Hunter profile if you have one.

One more thing: A few weeks ago, right after I came back to retail, you accused me of being on my alt because my item level was under 420 and I had only cleared LFR. It’s funny that you’re still doing it a few weeks later.

Either way - This Hunter is my main. It has been my main since Wrath. Even if I play another character, my Hunter will always be my main.

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I think you fail to see the point, or the major flaw of basing anything using the avatar.

Yep, you CLEARLY missed the point.

Avatars are AVATARS ! Thats it, thats all. They say nothing about the person.

Actually they say what class the person plays. That is kinda their entire point on these forums. If you are incapable of posting on a Hunter, because you don’t play a Hunter, then your inflammatory opinions should be disregarded concerning Hunter issues on the Hunter forums.

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That is a false statement Mr Troll. Its a fake information, it could be a main, alt, boosted, random, bank… and you wouldn’t know. “You’d know by inspecting it” No you wouldn’t. Any one can gear one, can decide to swap main at any moment.

Its only a gate for people on the forum to easily “attempt” to insult another based on the content he/she did, while ignoring the main subject at hand.

When loosing, people turn to insults, and what better way than to specifically target the avatar / character shown… because thats all you have.

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Asking you to post on your Hunter to show that you have a Hunter is not an insult.

Can you explain why somebody who doesn’t play Hunter should be able to tell people who do play Hunter what they should provide feedback about concerning the Hunter class?

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Most people who aren’t quitters have most every class at this point after 15 years. Your delusional “rules” are meaningless. No one cares that you require people to post here on hunters, because you have no authority and are just a whiner on the forums.