How long are we going to argue over Msv and Rsv

Mythic + and the MDI…are just as difficult as any mythic raid. You can queue for said dungeons. Now why don’t you answer the question about the roles you can select to queue for them…

The entire point of the latter half of this thread were people trying to claim that a tank and melee dps are the same role, and it wasn’t a big change when DKs lost the ability to dps as blood, but somehow the change to SV was bigger.

In short, the point your trying to argue is completely irrelevant to the conversation. You either can’t read or don’t understand that mmorpg’s have had the holy trinity since their inception. And that trinity, is tank, healer, and dps. All of the other stuff you said is irrelevant to the conversation and idiocy given the scope of said topic.

p.s. using your own flawed logic, holy pallys are melee, since raid mechanics treat them as such.

i mean it was though. DK in wrath could tank AND dps on each spec. SV went from ONLY range to ONLY melee. It’s not like it already had competing playstyles within the spec pre-legion. It was very much entirely ranged up until that point.

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So going from being able to dps to only being able to tank isn’t as big of change to you as going from dps to dps? I understand ranged and melee played differently, but they’re still dps. The DK change was much bigger, simply because you’re ignoring the people who didn’t pick blood dk to tank, they either had to switch roles or switch specs. This was a bigger change than SV.

When your raid group starts to form and you join it. You are either a melee DPS or a ranged DPS.

But this is a gross oversimplification. Especially when the only point he is trying to get at is that changing buttons on the LFG and nothing else is a bigger change than losing all of your abilities, passives, talents, and completely changing your weapon and role within a raid.

He is trying to say “Melee dps and ranged dps both que as DPS in dungeons, and dungeon queues are the only things that determine the differences between any two specs or classes.”, which, again, is a gross oversimplification.

Why don’t you just go play a Warrior if you despise ranged weapon specs then? Why even roll a Hunter in the first place?

And those examples aren’t even taking into account encounter specific mechanics.

I’ve explained this to you so many times. Just because the total numbers of roles Blood DKs could perform changed doesn’t mean that the spec changed in any significant way. It still had largely the same abilities, passives, baseline abilities, utilities, cooldowns, etc…

But guess what spec changed roles and also lost the huge majority of their abilities, passives, baseline abilities, utilities, cooldowns, etc.? Yup, you guessed it: Survival.

Blood was still Blood, whether it was tank and DPS or just tank. But Survival was deleted and replaced with a completely different spec. Blood was not removed and replaced with Arcane. If it was, only then would you have a valid comparison.

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The fact you’re literally trying to argue you play even remotely the same as a tank verse a melee dps makes anything you say irrelevant. You’re clearly biased and nothing you do or say will change that.

Wanna take another pass at that word salad?

Where exactly did I claim that ranged DPS specs play like tanks?

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Idk why I bothered lol

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Sorry but the biggest problems will get the most people talking. Not an excuse for Blizzard to slack off and not fix MM and BM too though. Tired of them doing nothing.

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Are you daft? You’re claiming blood plays the same as dps or tank. That’s just blatantly false and clearly shows you’d say anything to hang onto your woe is me SV changes were the worst…

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Not sure why you even bother. He’s already proven he doesn’t read people’s posts and he’s intellectually dishonest. You could prove him 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt wrong and he’d tell you your stupid because he read the 1st three words and decided you’re wrong because you said anything.

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You’re right. At this point I can’t even imagine what motive a person would have for such blatant deliberate obtuseness other than just plain old trolling.

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Says the person arguing that melee dps and tanks are the same thing. Deliberate obtuseness indeed…

You queue for M+ dungeons now?

How does that work?

I never claimed the SV change was bigger than the DK change. In fact, in my first post in the thread, I said this:

Why we can’t all admit that role changes are equally major regardless of the class they happen on is completely beyond my understanding.

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Because not all changes are equal in scope.

Correct.

DK losing 3 role/spec options with those specs retaining a number of abilities is SIMILAR in scope to Hunter losing 1 role/spec option and retaining few abilities.

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But DKs had 6 role/spec options to begin with, being able to tank or DPS in each spec. Hunters only had three ranged DPS options, and were the only ranged DPS options in the entire game.

As we later saw with Feral and Guardian, trying to force both a tanking spec and a DPS spec into one spec dilutes the spec as a whole and harms both. That’s why Blizzard focused each spec on one role in Cata, including DKs. But this was not the case with Hunters. We didn’t have 2 playstyles/roles competing for talents and what not in one spec, and the one playstyle/role that Survival did have was deleted and replaced with a completely new spec that more resembled a Warrior spec than anything else.

Locks, mages, spriests, ele, and balance would beg to differ. Unless you really want to try and claim holding a bow/gun somehow makes you a special snowflake. This is almost as bad as you trying to pretend melee dps and tanks play the same.

But the tanks played entirely differently. Blood was about absorbs and self healing via damage done, Frost was about augmenting armor and generally more of a traditional tank, Unholy was about preventing magic damage and sacrificing the ghoul for self heals.

Frost has none of that fantasy left in the DPS spec, nor does Unholy have any of that fantasy.

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But here we go again, trying to argue that spellcasting and firing arrows are the same.

They aren’t.

Why we can’t recognize that people play the characters they like, and when those characters are fundamentally changed in how they approach the game, people get angry, I have no idea.

It isn’t a victimhood contest.

First, for quite awhile hunters used mana and “fired” arcane arrows. In fact, they still fire arcane arrows, so there is no fundamental difference other than the way it looks. Second, hunters and other ranged classes are played exactly the same. Your point would be correct, if any of this discussion had anything at all to do with aesthetics.

If you want to direct your ire, direct it at the people who are claiming to be the only ranged class in the game (rofl), while also continually whining that the change to SV was the most egregious and horrid change in the history of wow.