10/29/2018 05:36 PMPosted by
Kelgar
raider io is killing the game more then lfr.raider io needs to be banned by blizzard.
Raider Io isn't the problem you think it is. It's Blizzard decisions on M+ design and difficulty curves that has caused it to be overused due to the tedious nature of the dungeons.
I am super casual and only ever do LFR raids (in the past) for the story progression and the xmogs, and I think for that it's fine.
But as someone who is casual in WoW like I am, even I can admit that the way LFR is in its current state is out of control. There is no reason why I should get items that titanforge to higher ilvls than the content I'm doing. I really don't understand the logic behind devaluing higher difficulty instances or the general loot free-for-all in game currently.
I've done a few Normals and (I think?) a few Mythic raids in the past from time to time when I wanted to try more challenging content, and it was fun because it was challenging and felt worth it when loot dropped. But now I really don't see a reason to do a higher difficulty instance, especially when I find the raid so dull, the gear ugly and not class oriented. I'll just farm it for the xmog I want in the future, if I come back to WoW.
First off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it so the adults can talk.
Now on to the actual point of this post.
How is LFR killing the game? Simply put it gives people a terrible introduction to what raiding actually is. As the old saying goes first impressions matter. If you're a new player now chances are that your first time in a raid was LFR. Now some of you might be thinking that the terrible first impression that gives you is the toxic environment you are in.
Nope, although admittedly that isn't great. The problem is what it teaches you about raiding. In LFR the mechanics pretty much don't matter. Too the point where it usually only requires 5 people doing them properly to beat the boss. This creates bad habits, so that by the time you try your first normal mode you have no idea what you are actually doing.
Contrast this to what the first raiding experience was for people who raided in the pre-LFR days. We learned the hard way in our first raid how important the mechanics, and learning to deal with them, were. We learned the value of research. This taught us something; raid awareness. We had to learn to play our class well enough so that we could do it blindfolded, freeing up our attention for everything else that was going on around us.
The reason LFR is killing wow is that as old players leave the game, there are few people to replace them with who haven't picked up the bad habits I described as taking place in an LFR run. So now not only do you have to get someone up to speed with the way your guild raids, you have to teach them how to raid properly. And because these players are so used to the bosses just falling over from a light breeze this new world becomes disheartening to them. The attrition rate gets worse and worse.
This more than anything else will kill this game, as evidenced by the steady decline in subs over the years.
Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below.
I can tell you're trying really hard with grammar/punctuation and I just want to pick it apart. So many errors.
In fairness a lot of people have done all the world quests reputations and seen all the LFR bosses so see little point to AP grind so took a break
If the point of LFR was to let players who didn't see raid content and storyline completions a chance to do so, then whey can players run the LFR instances more than once?
Or even if they could do more than once, then why get gear each week?
If the point of LFR was to let players who didn't see raid content and storyline completions a chance to do so, then whey can players run the LFR instances more than once?
Or even if they could do more than once, then why get gear each week?
Because there needs to be some sort of incentive for people to keep going, so queue times are kept low for latecomers.
First off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it.
Well since you asked nicely... youâre being an elitist. Nothing else really needs to be said because everyone else in the thread has already said it. LFR doesnât hurt anything except the egos of elitists and wannabes who live vicariously through them.
10/29/2018 10:00 PMPosted by
Tadkins
Because there needs to be some sort of incentive for people to keep going, so queue times are kept low for latecomers.
Then make it a single player scenario.
10/29/2018 10:14 PMPosted by
Espur
Then make it a single player scenario.
Not my choice, it's Blizzards, and I am sure they considered that route.
10/29/2018 10:21 PMPosted by
Tadkins
Not my choice, it's Blizzards, and I am sure they considered that route.
It's weird that many people say LFR is for casual players to raid, even though 1) casual players can raid higher difficulties, and 2) whenever the loot from LFR is nerfed or sub-par, the complaints from LFR players are endless.
The hypocrisy from that side of things is always so funny. I remember those vanilla threads. I remember those ML threads.
10/29/2018 10:23 PMPosted by
Espur
It's weird that many people say LFR is for casual players to raid, even though 1) casual players can raid higher difficulties, and 2) whenever the loot from LFR is nerfed or sub-par, the complaints from LFR players are endless.
1. LFR is the only 100% inclusive option so it's there to serve the niche it needs to.
2. People were upset with WoD LFR for good reason.
10/29/2018 10:23 PMPosted by
Espur
The hypocrisy from that side of things is always so funny. I remember those vanilla threads. I remember those ML threads.
Good job.
1. LFR is the only 100% inclusive option so it's there to serve the niche it needs to.
I don't agree that the game needs 100% inclusion. This is exactly what caused the downfall of the community and brought about the, "toxicity" we see today. Being able to get into pretty much any raid with relative ease - even in normal/heroic - without any consequence for your actions is the problem.
2. People were upset with WoD LFR for good reason.
Why? The only difference was weaker gear. Why did you need very powerful gear when you don't actually need it to clear the content?
Good job.
I get a little bit of joy seeing the same people attacking anyone anti-flying or anti-LFR when completely different people are trying to defend vanilla servers and ML. It shows they're just as toxic or worse than the people they whine about.
10/30/2018 12:21 AMPosted by
Espur
I don't agree that the game needs 100% inclusion. This is exactly what caused the downfall of the community and brought about the, "toxicity" we see today. Being able to get into pretty much any raid with relative ease - even in normal/heroic - without any consequence for your actions is the problem.
I think that it does. No one likes being excluded.
As far as the "community" goes, it was always a pile of crap and frankly its downfall is no big loss. The less power the playerbase has over its fellows, the better.
10/30/2018 12:21 AMPosted by
Espur
Why? The only difference was weaker gear. Why did you need very powerful gear when you don't actually need it to clear the content?
That gear wasn't even worth the hassle. During HFC you could get better from the upgraded dauntless stuff. I think that's what it was called? Forgot the exact name. LFR was only worth it for the legendary ring questline.
10/30/2018 12:21 AMPosted by
Espur
I get a little bit of joy seeing the same people attacking anyone anti-flying or anti-LFR when completely different people are trying to defend vanilla servers and ML. It shows they're just as toxic or worse than the people they whine about.
*shrug* I can't speak for everyone. I never had much of a horse in those races.
I think that it does. No one likes being excluded.
Some people deserve to be excluded for being horrible human beings.
As far as the "community" goes, it was always a pile of crap and frankly its downfall is no big loss. The less power the playerbase has over its fellows, the better.
Yeah, no. I don't get what you mean when you talk about how "bad" it was in the past. I was not a super hardcore player, but the community I played with were always filled with people that you could spend time with - there were those that were mean, those that were awful to others, but they were fewer and they faced consequences if they did it a lot.
I remember trying to do a quest, failing, grouping with someone, then chatting and questing with them for hours. A random stranger. Same with doing dungeons.
My experiences differ greatly from your own.
That gear wasn't even worth the hassle. During HFC you could get better from the upgraded dauntless stuff. I think that's what it was called? Forgot the exact name. LFR was only worth it for the legendary ring questline.
What hassle? You queued for LFR, you pressed buttons, bosses died. There was no hassle.
10/30/2018 12:29 AMPosted by
Espur
Some people deserve to be excluded for being horrible human beings.
I can agree there, but plenty of decent people got excluded while the horrible human beings were actually in the top raid guilds, able to treat others like crap because what recourse could there be? No top raid guild was ever going to kick their best healer because he ninja'ed something in a group of "rando peasant scum". Hell they probably laughed at you together in Vent if you tried to bring the event up to their GM.
10/30/2018 12:29 AMPosted by
Espur
Yeah, no. I don't get what you mean when you talk about how "bad" it was in the past. I was not a super hardcore player, but the community I played with were always filled with people that you could spend time with - there were those that were mean, those that were awful to others, but they were fewer and they faced consequences if they did it a lot.
It's always been an elitist, and cliquey world. Ever since Vanilla.
LFR is killing th game? Itâs killing the game because it supposedly doesnât actually set players up for standard raiding?
What would you prefer then, OP? How is this any worse than the past where... you know... an overwhelming majority of the player base wasnât even doing dungeon content, with an even smaller fraction engaging in raid content?
LFR is serving its intended purpose: itâs allowing the type of player that doesnât want to get involved in highly collaborative content for whatever reason(s) to jump into a separate raid environment that requires less collaboration and has a greater margin for error than the standard raid environment. Blizzard created the LFR system for the majority of the player base that wasnât raiding, not for you.
In the past, most players didnât even have a first time raiding. Most didnât raid, period. Blizzard has reported this in past Q&As. We likely have more people deciding to try normal and heroic raids, with the ease of RF in terms of mechanics and group making being the sole reason some of them even considered joining a raid at all in the first place. Blizzard prefers this over having a majority of their players completely abstain from raiding.
Tuning the RF experience to better transition players into normal raiding is far more complicated than you think. If RF is adjusted too much to become more similar to normal difficulty concerning collaboration, mechanic adherence and matchmaking, it wouldnât be unreasonable to expect that the majority of players will abstain from engaging in raid content altogether once again.
I can agree there, but plenty of decent people got excluded while the horrible human beings were actually in the top raid guilds, able to treat others like crap because what recourse could there be? No top raid guild was ever going to kick their best healer because he ninja'ed something in a group of "rando peasant scum". Hell they probably laughed at you together in Vent if you tried to bring the event up to their GM.
I mean sure, some guilds had horrible people in them, but that wasn't the norm. You don't know every guild and not everyone will tolerate these people. And no, that person ninja'ing isn't going to get them to kick him, but it will get him blacklisted if they continue to do it.
It's always been an elitist, and cliquey world. Ever since Vanilla.
Okay. That wasn't my experience, but alright.