First off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it so the adults can talk.
Now on to the actual point of this post.
How is LFR killing the game? Simply put it gives people a terrible introduction to what raiding actually is. As the old saying goes first impressions matter. If you're a new player now chances are that your first time in a raid was LFR. Now some of you might be thinking that the terrible first impression that gives you is the toxic environment you are in.
Nope, although admittedly that isn't great. The problem is what it teaches you about raiding. In LFR the mechanics pretty much don't matter. Too the point where it usually only requires 5 people doing them properly to beat the boss. This creates bad habits, so that by the time you try your first normal mode you have no idea what you are actually doing.
Contrast this to what the first raiding experience was for people who raided in the pre-LFR days. We learned the hard way in our first raid how important the mechanics, and learning to deal with them, were. We learned the value of research. This taught us something; raid awareness. We had to learn to play our class well enough so that we could do it blindfolded, freeing up our attention for everything else that was going on around us.
The reason LFR is killing wow is that as old players leave the game, there are few people to replace them with who haven't picked up the bad habits I described as taking place in an LFR run. So now not only do you have to get someone up to speed with the way your guild raids, you have to teach them how to raid properly. And because these players are so used to the bosses just falling over from a light breeze this new world becomes disheartening to them. The attrition rate gets worse and worse.
This more than anything else will kill this game, as evidenced by the steady decline in subs over the years.
Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below.
11 Likes
Short summary of how LFR is killing the game:
it's not.
it's not.
47 Likes
LoL....
Oh wait...LoL
If you don't like LFR, then don't do it...wait, I'm still laughing and snorting ale out of my nose.
Oh nevermind...
Oh wait...LoL
If you don't like LFR, then don't do it...wait, I'm still laughing and snorting ale out of my nose.
Oh nevermind...
13 Likes
LFR isn't an introduction to raiding. It is a culmination to the story for many players who don't want to participate in organized raiding.
Mechanics mattered so much in the early days that 30 people out of the 40 man raids could ignore them and the raid would still complete the encounter.
Mechanics mattered so much in the early days that 30 people out of the 40 man raids could ignore them and the raid would still complete the encounter.
17 Likes
delete LFR
1 Like
How LFR is ACTUALLY killing the game.
Lying in thread titles is cool.
12 Likes
not gonna throw shade however you and people whom claim the game needs to be how they see fit are forgetting the game is 15 years old.
many of us do not have the time to "git gud" also the influx of newer player is probably much lower then those leaving because of life i.e growing up and realising that a full time job and family = not enough time to put in full time hours in a game.
just because some do have the time does not mean they should only play a game.
also if this offends you all so much why even bother with it.
i will tell you why because you want every advantage you can get and if that means LFR for runes/titanforge then you will do it and complain that the people it is meant for are not on your level .
when you are the one encrouching on their level of game play trying to make it more like your own style.
many of us do not have the time to "git gud" also the influx of newer player is probably much lower then those leaving because of life i.e growing up and realising that a full time job and family = not enough time to put in full time hours in a game.
just because some do have the time does not mean they should only play a game.
also if this offends you all so much why even bother with it.
i will tell you why because you want every advantage you can get and if that means LFR for runes/titanforge then you will do it and complain that the people it is meant for are not on your level .
when you are the one encrouching on their level of game play trying to make it more like your own style.
4 Likes
This is like saying...
"Sidewalks hurt jogging because I like jogging in the mountains where there are no trails"
"Sidewalks hurt jogging because I like jogging in the mountains where there are no trails"
6 Likes
I hear what you are saying but I think you fail to realize how many players do not care about difficulty or challenge or progression. They want to do the content with friends and maybe get an upgrade if they are lucky. They don’t care about getting better or doing things properly, they just want to have fun. Personally, I don’t think fun ruins the game, I think other people telling everyone else what fun is, is ruining the game.
6 Likes
You really think its LFR that's "killing" the game and not any of the other factors like: the game's sheer age, the unattractive state of azerite gear, island expeditions, and boring warfronts that just crap out loot?
I wasn't aware that LFR was designed specifically to be an introduction to "real" raiding. As far as I know, it was literally just a way for every player to get access to the storylines and accompanying environments that come with them.
I don't join LFR for the thrill of raiding. I actually quite dislike the tedium of raiding. I join LFR because I like fighting gigantic big bad guys related to a more or less interesting story.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the whole TF loot in LFR making mythic raiders sad (good on you for that).
I wasn't aware that LFR was designed specifically to be an introduction to "real" raiding. As far as I know, it was literally just a way for every player to get access to the storylines and accompanying environments that come with them.
I don't join LFR for the thrill of raiding. I actually quite dislike the tedium of raiding. I join LFR because I like fighting gigantic big bad guys related to a more or less interesting story.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the whole TF loot in LFR making mythic raiders sad (good on you for that).
1 Like
So if you want mature or thoughtful responses, you do yourself no favors by saying things like:
"Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below."
It makes the entire thing seem like little more than slightly better packaged bait.
I will say this. Being able to progress my character through the LFR system keeps me subscribed, and keeps me paying. I pay for various character services as well. My employment requires a lot of time from me, at varying times. It would not be fair for me to inflict my random absences upon a raid.
If LFR were removed, I would find something else to play. I want to be able to progress my gear in at least the meager way LFR offers. In fact, if Blizz created an LFR-only server somehow, I'd happily play there.
I do not wish anyone a bad time. I'd like for everyone to get what they want from playing the game. I also find the arguments against LFR to be... without real support beyond wishful thinking and speculation.
And, really, I'm far from alone in this, or something close to it. Perhaps players are like me, and simply aren't going to be able to raid reliably. Perhaps they struggle with a disability that makes the intensity of regular raiding difficult for them, and do not have the social network to account for this. Perhaps some simply have no interest in raiding culture or time investment.
In the end, it doesn't matter. There are people for whom LFR is a part of what keeps them paying. All claims of "deserve", or speculation of what LFR may or may not be doing to regular forms of raiding are at best speculative, and at worst, incredibly subjective.
These are customers as well. In any serious discussion of removing LFR, or gutting the rewards, due to nebulous claims of "bad for raiding" or any other reason, there must be a weighing of costs. Because doing this WILL cost customers. Would the removal of LFR be better for the customer base? I can't seriously answer that. Neither can anyone here.
"Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below."
It makes the entire thing seem like little more than slightly better packaged bait.
I will say this. Being able to progress my character through the LFR system keeps me subscribed, and keeps me paying. I pay for various character services as well. My employment requires a lot of time from me, at varying times. It would not be fair for me to inflict my random absences upon a raid.
If LFR were removed, I would find something else to play. I want to be able to progress my gear in at least the meager way LFR offers. In fact, if Blizz created an LFR-only server somehow, I'd happily play there.
I do not wish anyone a bad time. I'd like for everyone to get what they want from playing the game. I also find the arguments against LFR to be... without real support beyond wishful thinking and speculation.
And, really, I'm far from alone in this, or something close to it. Perhaps players are like me, and simply aren't going to be able to raid reliably. Perhaps they struggle with a disability that makes the intensity of regular raiding difficult for them, and do not have the social network to account for this. Perhaps some simply have no interest in raiding culture or time investment.
In the end, it doesn't matter. There are people for whom LFR is a part of what keeps them paying. All claims of "deserve", or speculation of what LFR may or may not be doing to regular forms of raiding are at best speculative, and at worst, incredibly subjective.
These are customers as well. In any serious discussion of removing LFR, or gutting the rewards, due to nebulous claims of "bad for raiding" or any other reason, there must be a weighing of costs. Because doing this WILL cost customers. Would the removal of LFR be better for the customer base? I can't seriously answer that. Neither can anyone here.
3 Likes
10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosĂ nctFirst off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it so the adults can talk.
Now on to the actual point of this post.
How is LFR killing the game? Simply put it gives people a terrible introduction to what raiding actually is. As the old saying goes first impressions matter. If you're a new player now chances are that your first time in a raid was LFR. Now some of you might be thinking that the terrible first impression that gives you is the toxic environment you are in.
Nope, although admittedly that isn't great. The problem is what it teaches you about raiding. In LFR the mechanics pretty much don't matter. Too the point where it usually only requires 5 people doing them properly to beat the boss. This creates bad habits, so that by the time you try your first normal mode you have no idea what you are actually doing.
Contrast this to what the first raiding experience was for people who raided in the pre-LFR days. We learned the hard way in our first raid how important the mechanics, and learning to deal with them, were. We learned the value of research. This taught us something; raid awareness. We had to learn to play our class well enough so that we could do it blindfolded, freeing up our attention for everything else that was going on around us.
The reason LFR is killing wow is that as old players leave the game, there are few people to replace them with who haven't picked up the bad habits I described as taking place in an LFR run. So now not only do you have to get someone up to speed with the way your guild raids, you have to teach them how to raid properly. And because these players are so used to the bosses just falling over from a light breeze this new world becomes disheartening to them. The attrition rate gets worse and worse.
This more than anything else will kill this game, as evidenced by the steady decline in subs over the years.
Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below.
Oh, it's you again. With more nonsense...
LFR is for people who can't or won't raid. It's not an introduction or tutorial to actual raiding, though some people may use it that way.
If you are going to do regular raids you are still expected to do research and know what you are doing.
And the final blow: The fights in LFR today are more complicated mechanic wise than the fights were back then.
2 Likes
LFR is not true raiding, its a way for players to access content (story) that would otherwise not be seen by the vast majority of the player base.
That does not kill the game it expands it to those who would otherwise never get access.
That does not kill the game it expands it to those who would otherwise never get access.
3 Likes
I wouldn't mind seeing LFR take a dirtnap. But here's your choice, OP:
LFR stays more or less as-is
or
there is absolutely no story content locked behind raids. Not a single cinematic or gate to other content.
You decide!
Not everyone wants to raid "seriously".
LFR stays more or less as-is
or
there is absolutely no story content locked behind raids. Not a single cinematic or gate to other content.
You decide!
Not everyone wants to raid "seriously".
1 Like
LFR is not killing the gaming, some of my friends just don't like to raid in a guild environment.
Either they work odd hours, just don't like to be involved in guilds, don't like the pressure that normal or heroic raiding gives a person and or they suck and they know it.
Like I said looking for raid is not killing as you say wow now wow has issues Azurite gear and a lot of others but LFR it's not hurting it.
Either they work odd hours, just don't like to be involved in guilds, don't like the pressure that normal or heroic raiding gives a person and or they suck and they know it.
Like I said looking for raid is not killing as you say wow now wow has issues Azurite gear and a lot of others but LFR it's not hurting it.
1 Like
10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosĂ nctFirst off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it so the adults can talk.
Now on to the actual point of this post.
How is LFR killing the game? Simply put it gives people a terrible introduction to what raiding actually is. As the old saying goes first impressions matter. If you're a new player now chances are that your first time in a raid was LFR. Now some of you might be thinking that the terrible first impression that gives you is the toxic environment you are in.
Nope, although admittedly that isn't great. The problem is what it teaches you about raiding. In LFR the mechanics pretty much don't matter. Too the point where it usually only requires 5 people doing them properly to beat the boss. This creates bad habits, so that by the time you try your first normal mode you have no idea what you are actually doing.
Contrast this to what the first raiding experience was for people who raided in the pre-LFR days. We learned the hard way in our first raid how important the mechanics, and learning to deal with them, were. We learned the value of research. This taught us something; raid awareness. We had to learn to play our class well enough so that we could do it blindfolded, freeing up our attention for everything else that was going on around us.
The reason LFR is killing wow is that as old players leave the game, there are few people to replace them with who haven't picked up the bad habits I described as taking place in an LFR run. So now not only do you have to get someone up to speed with the way your guild raids, you have to teach them how to raid properly. And because these players are so used to the bosses just falling over from a light breeze this new world becomes disheartening to them. The attrition rate gets worse and worse.
This more than anything else will kill this game, as evidenced by the steady decline in subs over the years.
Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below.
LFR is not, and never was intended to be, an introduction to raiding. It's pseudo-raiding for those who cannot do proper raiding, whether for lack of time or lack of ability or skill. Furthermore, by greatly expanding the section of the game's population that actually sees the raid instances, it provides justification for sinking resources into developing raids.
And yes, I am an LFR Hero, and I will freely admit that I have all too much time on my hands, and nothing meaningful to spend it on.
1 Like
I don't think LFR is killing the game. I really wonder how anyone finds it fun though. I'm not judging you if you'd like to do it but warfronts seem like a much better and more fun way to reach 340.
10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosĂ nctThis more than anything else will kill this game, as evidenced by the steady decline in subs over the years.
Brace yourself for the LFR heroes calling me an elitist no-lifer below.
I would say the steady decline in subs over the years has more to do with lack of content outside of raiding. A lot of the rpg elements of the game has been removed in order to create a more on the rails experience. Just look at how classes have been pruned and the flavor removed from them. Our lackluster professions, gear options, or rewards systems. If anything LFR probably helped keep people subbed because it gives a low stress way for people to see endgame content and progress their character.
Creating a game where the focus is just on endgame content like raiding is what is actually killing the game.
2 Likes
10/27/2018 08:09 AMPosted by RairdarI don't think LFR is killing the game. I really wonder how anyone finds it fun though. I'm not judging you if you'd like to do it but warfronts seem like a much better and more fun way to reach 340.
Yep. Just before you posted this, someone else had posted (and then deleted) a post saying "if it is about the content then there shouldn't be loot!"
Like, LOL. Why the hell would "real" raiders care about LFR dropping LFR-ilvl gear.
2 Likes
10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosĂ nctHow is LFR killing the game? Simply put it gives people a terrible introduction to what raiding actually is. As the old saying goes first impressions matter.
Yeah, just imagine if their first impression was "real raiding". Four to five hours stuck with people you don't like, listening to all their foul language, inane juvenile chatter, endless waiting while people are summoned, the inevitable favourites and that's in a guild group.
2 Likes