do you not think this is because the FORM rerollers recognized DH and UH to be superior, and gravitated towards them?
i’m looking at 1800+ solo shuffle on check-pvp right now, at the class percentages. rogue overall is 3rd from the bottom, with 4.27%, vs DH at top with 14.81 %. those are all 3 rogue specs vs 1 DH spec, mind you.
I do not think that if you take the global stats of classes played, rogues are outnumbered 3 to 1 by DHs.
i won’t say that, but i will say historically rogue has done well in 2s, and that the sample size is just too small, especially over 2400, which is insignificant.
looking on check-pvp, again over 1800, combined US+EU, i see 20k players in SS vs 5k players in 2s. that is a 4x participation rate.
even in 2s, over 1800, there are 555 DHs to 543 sub rogues, or 540 havocs vs 252 subs. also 261 UHs and 261 arms.
So even in 2s, at 1800, the sub rogues are in 4th place for representation.
things change if you look over 2200, but the sample size is just too small. 5 sub rogues vs 4 DHs doesn’t warrant a discussion in my opinion, single digits are far more representative of player skill than over general trends
I played a rogue for years. Sub is not fun for me. You either blow someone up in a stun or you vanish and wait for cooldowns to come back and try again. I do not find it fun at all
For anyone lacking the context, the person I quote was trying to use representation, a bottom tier metric when determining strength, as a way to imply sub probably isn’t as strong as OP implied via his obviously hyperbolic statement
Even implying sub isn’t strong because of representation is a straight up circus clown thing to say
Then Murphy linked the check PvP showing dude was just a rogue main hiding on an alt so it all made sense in the end
I’m glad to see we came to some agreement. I will say though, melee range is 5 yards and “most classes” don’t get access to the talent rogues get that add 3 yards to their melee range. So that extra 5 yards they have is pretty huge - and if it wasn’t, then why did they change it from classic where it was melee range and then afterwards sap became much easier to land on targets?
Buddy, you don’t need to be a statistician to realize there’s something fundamentally wrong with a spec. I would argue that a top-tier player competing against other top-tier players while achieving a ~94% win rate is a better indication of what a spec is actually capable of in good hands.
Yeah man, the fact that an R1 rogue is literally trinketing the first CC that hits them and/or sends cloak which makes them immune to the vast majority of the CCs that you referenced really reinforces the point you’re trying to make. You don’t need to be an R1 to mimic that behavior btw.
I think my favorite part of the tournament was watching Wizk hit disperse at 40% health while a rogue yelled “MAYBE GO THROUGH”.
Look man, people use defensives against rogue teams. I can count several times this season where I pre-walled against a non-R1 sub rogue and died in three cheap shots.
TL;DR - Average sub rogues are trying to rationalize their spec being over-tuned because they don’t have the physical dexterity or mental capacity to play their class effectively.
I will admit, I did log into my rogue after you pointed that out (haven’t played it in a while) and you were correct - it’s only ranged when you are in actual stealth and is melee range during shadow dance. Oops
Didn’t waste my time with the rest of your post after this stupid comment:
“1. in pvp, stealth lasts a max of 15 seconds for all classes. If you can’t get into position within that time, then you failed your stealth. After 15 seconds, there’s a 5 sec cd on the ability.”
Uh yea, I’m sure all the feral druids are going to love that, seeing how they have to already wait 6 seconds to restealth.
It also makes my felguard useless because 99% of its attacks are physical. Sure, I can personally try to get a cast off with a rogue in my face, but good luck with that. And the cloak gives them 5 seconds of magic immunity as well, so my CC won’t do a thing. I’m basically standing there doing nothing for at least 5 seconds, and then once I am able to cast something, the rogue will kick me or stun me. So I’m not casting for at least 10 seconds and my felguard is doing little to no damage for 15 seconds.
Great game design.
That’s why I stopped playing my demo lock outside arena.
