The issue with ret damage is that you have no prio damage when in an aoe spec.
Ret single target is pretty amazing when fully spec’d into single target.
Ret aoe is crazy good when spec’d into aoe talents.
Ret only lacks the ability to do good single target/prio damage when in aoe spec.
But ret gets Sac, bop, bubble, WoG off healing, 20+ yard range on all abilities (except auto-attack) so you are never zoned off mobs.
If you want better prio damage on ret, then blizzard would have to SIGNIFICANTLY nerf your aoe.
If you want more mobility on ret, blizzard would have to remove your 20 yard range on blade of justice and final verdict, make judgment a 20 yard range instead of 40, remove the forward projection of divine storm so that it only damages mob within melee range of the paladin, remove two charges of divine steed and increase cool-down to one minute.
If you want to give all that up for a bit more mobility, sure. But otherwise, ret is doing just fine in terms of damage output and mobility.
How is someone who plays ret with 2 divine steed charges PLUS 30% movement increase with freedom going to complain about mobility when DKs have none of that.
You’ve got your pvp and all other stats hidden, so I have no idea if your experienced in pvp or other content but there are some inaccuracies on your post.
HoJ
BoJ
WoA
Searing Glare
Hammer of Light
Rebuke
Auto attacks(obviously)
Are all lower than 20 yards.
And Judgment is not 40 yards, it is doing fine at 30yards like HoW.
Because of the many abilities that require melee range or are a little bit more than melee range, in PVP Ret damage is greatly reduced if the Ret is trying to DPS at 20 yards.
I also am guessing you are talking about PVE when you claim Ret damage is competitive as PVP specific nerfs ensure it isnt.
Are you just completely ignorant to what this post was complaining about? Are you really that simple that you can’t tell this convo had nothing to do with PVP. That PvP makes little to no difference here?
You have ranged abilities, just deal with not having instant snap to melee range. You don’t even need it. The garbage you are asking for would make the class so broken it’s stupid. You’d have nothing but Pally v Pally instead of PvP.
That is a concern of mine, being nerfed while mid, because in PVP, PVE nerfs compound with the dozens of PVP nerfs Ret already has.
If they even pvp…
MR Rogue wouldnt like it if it got 18ish yard ranges on some abilities but lost all its mobility outside of Sprints, disarm, invisability, and its defensives were dispellable.
Mr Warrior wouldnt like it if it gained some ranged attacks but lost MS, a strong slow, 2 instant mobility abilities, disarm, and have their defensives dispellable, in exchange for a sprint.
Players telling Rets to suck it up and just accept being designed to be inferior don’t placate me.
Again, if you say, Ret is perfectly fine in Raid and M+, you are right. If you think it is nearly as effective as some other dps when everything it wants to do is easily countered and it has a ton less particularly helpful pvp specific tools, you’re very wrong.
You don’t have BoP and Blessing of Spellwarding to use by the same paladin in less than 4 minutes of each other, using one on anyone wont let the paladin cast the other on anyone for 4 or 5 minutes depending on if you spent a talent point to reduce the cooldown by 60 seconds or not. So Ret can LoH, then as soon as needed (if talented to have bubble ignore Forbearance) can Bubble, then in 20 seconds (or 30 seconds if not talented) can use a Blessing on itself.
In PvP with Divine Shield and BoP dispelled way before their 8 second duration ends and BoS unavailable for 4 minimum minutes, you’ve got most of 40 minimum seconds to kill the paladin during 8 seconds of DP(10% in pvp damage reduction) and SoV(breaks after a fairly strong attack hits it or 2 weak ones). Outside of an immunity active that is allowed to stay active Ret is as durable as wet 1 ply, I kill Rets all the time.
In PVE where no one is dispelling Paladin Defensives, Paladins do great.
There is no point in discussing anything with him. He is not logical and will continue to whine.
This went from PVE to PVP and then Group PVP. If you prove him wrong, he will change the subject to Plunderstorm.
He will howl that consecration in Plunderstom doesn’t reflect Ret and it needs to be more powerful. He’d want consecration to root other adventurers so he could auto attack them and would ask for bonus Plunder because he had to press buttons.
I or other paladins could tell you the problems we have but I highly doubt you’d acknowledge said problems.
I mean, your attitude toward paladins are self evident with your statements like “How can ret paladins genuinely ask for more” or “Ret paladins should never see another rework.” I freely admit that imho, paladins are in a good spot, better than many other specs, but “perfect”???
