It is not. That 5% doesnt include hero tree abilities like hammer of light so this is a straight nerf to templar ret and a huge buff to herald (boring spec)
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If ret was so mid, why do people stack Ret pallies in high level mythics?
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Ah, so its even worse than I initially thought. It’s also not exactly 5%, since the aura buff is already at 6% and is being increased to 11%. So its only a 4.72% increase.
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Can I get some data on this? Trying to see population trends compared to the sheer ammount of people playing Paladin class.
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Yeah, just open up Pre-Made groups and look under dungeons. Sometimes you’ll see some groups running 2 ret pallies or more… my guess is because of the great AoE rets do.
This is a good point. Pallies has a large population class an in proportion to other classes it may be below the mean average in high level mythics.
This sounds made up, first Ret isn’t until 58th place in terms of score, second at 136th, they are definitely in a better place than raid but they are still 5th overall choice in terms of high keys.
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Go through the top 1000 keys and come back with the first key that is not running an Aug and an Enhance, stacking Pallies is not happening, they are over represented in low-mid keys and drop away on high keys!
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You do have a point there. I do see them stacking only at low ranges.
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funny thing about that 
the buff also effects empyr hammer for some reason so teechnically the 30% nerf is a 25% nerf
Empyrean hammer was way over powered. Do yourself a favour and stop making yourself look like the typical dumb Ret Paladin. It honestly could be nerfed harder and still be fine.
Damn, a Ret Paladin being honest.
This is where I am gonna really do something odd, I agree. A class that is Mid shouldn’t be nerfed. RET PALADIN IS NOT MID. (Unless you mean PVP, which we don’t care about). Ret has WAY too much damage, plays itself, which means optimizing damage is already done for you. Ret Paladin’s skill ceiling is all the rest of the things it brings to a key. Guessing you don’t understand that though.
Now, you want to see a Mid class get nerfed? Just look at Warrior for most of this season. Over and over again. All because our damage profile fit perfectly with Raid boss encounters.
Oh noes, you actually have to use other skills and attacks more to make up for the damage. Oh no! Anyway…
I have a wonderful screen cap of a Prot Paladin, 2 Ret, Disc, and Aug in a 15 Dawn. Really annoyed me to see this crap happen.
Do you realize how many Ret and Prot paladins are in title range? I’ll give you a hint. I lot more than any non-meta class.
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Did I complain about EH being nerfed, nope, even said it was fine, however they stated they were taking power away from EH and “redistributing” it, but they failed to do so correctly and we ended up in a worse place than before.
Oh sorry I guess raiding doesn’t exist, maybe for you since you can only hit 4/8. However it’s definitely VERY MID in raid. It’s healthier in M+ for sure, there are still better choices.
I’m better than you.
No one cares, 15s aren’t getting you a title. I’m sure there are plenty of doubled up DPS in 15s.
Means nothing, Ret is one of the most popular specs right now, and ever. This post has also nothing to do with Prot, you sound like someone jealous of Ret Paladins, too hard for you to play?
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I’ll say it again. Don’t nerf Ret. Just give all other melees range abilities like ret.
I want my builders and finishers to be range attacks. I also want my offensive cool downs to be 30 seconds and 1 minute. Ret is the easiest class to do overpowered AOE.
In addition, I want Ret’s survivability. Give me their defensive.
I think having mid range builders and finishers is the MOST ridiculous thing for a melee class. Mechanics don’t mean anything to them so they suffer no down time.
On top of that, Ret’s got no resource to manage! Holy power is not a resource, it’s a combo system.
To the post above……many classes would love to do 15s by just pressing a few buttons. Titles are for dedicated groups so it has nothing to do with Ret’s easy play style pushing spectacular dps numbers.
So weird that “all ability” doesn’t actually include all Ret abilities. I guess they don’t see the hero trees for ret as ret abilities? Well either way that’s not enough then.
Neither are overly interesting sadly. I can’t think of a more passive tree than herald though, agreed.
If you check the datamining, the aura buff does not include hero tree spells.
This would not be the first time this happened, things like expurgation (dot attached to blade of justice) were not included in our mastery bonus (all holy damage) and expurgation was holy damage and yet it didnt scale with mastery until blizzard “fixed” it
I would be happy if that 5% applied to all templar damage sources like hammer of light and empyrean hammer but as it stands now it doesnt
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You have grappling hook, shadowstep, and sprint, Ret has Divine Steed, our movement is not the same which is why we have some increased range.
You have the best defensive in the game with Feint, it’s not even comparable, Ret actually has some the worst defensives right now outside of bubble, which is regularly used to cheese mechanics and not for defensive purposes.
Sure buddy, clearly you haven’t played and are just speculating because mechanics still matter, you also lose a big contributor to your Holy Power generation without being in melee.
Judgment has ALWAYS had range, same with BoJ, just shorter, so you are whining that we have range on FV and 10 extra yards on BoJ, get it together.
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warcraftlogs would disagree with you fully, bud. It’s not a mid spec without you looking at less than perfect players. If you look at the better players, aka the highest percentiles, it’s near the top on Mythic. On Heroic, it’s near the top for all item levels. On Normal, it’s near the top for all item levels.
Literally proves you wrong, 100% bud. Sorry, go read some logs.
The only time Ret is middle, like actual middle and not upper middle, is very few bosses at top levels of game play on Mythic.
Grappling hook and shadow step are different specs and sprint? Mobility skills don’t do you any good when you can’t hit the boss/mobs because of a mechanic. You also have freedom and your horse lasts just as long or longer than a rogue’s mobility. I’d still rather take the mid range abilities.
Feint costs energy and doesn’t make us immune to damage and we have to manage our energy. If we mindless press feint we will run out of energy and won’t be able to dps. I guess a ret paladin wouldn’t understand resource management because they just mindlessly press buttons that glows.
So when a mechanic happen its between 5-10 seconds long…in that time how many abilities can you still spam? While other dps lose that down time. Mid range abilities for melee is the most ridiculous thing.
Come on man! Ret is easy mode to play and do good damage.
You didn’t quote this…
Because its true…
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It’s mid unless you’re looking purely at max percentile. I don’t even know how max percentile works considering it shows ret paladin dps on most bosses is literally higher than the #1 parse.
Lol you’re kidding, normal fights are over in 30s and mean absolutely nothing for balance, Heroics are 1-2m, only outliers for either being Court and Queen.
Oh you mean the only time balance matters? You think Blizzard is balancing for the 50th percentile?
Being able to get back into melee range instantly with a shadowstep or grappling hook is better than being able to do 60% of your rotation from 20 yards.
Nothing you said is true, just gonna go ahead and add you to ignore, you are posting from a 70, what content have you even done, how would you know anything relevant?