You seem to be under the impression that I play paladin and somehow have skin in the game as if that would alter what I’m saying to be inaccurate.
1 Like
thank you very much for your input
It can matter to me even if I don’t play paladin.
the reality is that the empyrean hammer nerf has zero effect on herald of the sun performance (because empyrean hammers only function for templar hero talent for ret paladins)
Well my only interactions with you have been you stretching the truth of things, saying stuff is inaccurate without bringing up any data of your own, and trying to read between the lines and insert things I never said. So I’m just going to go back to what I was doing before the 
and give everyone else an update on the aura buffs effectiveness
2 Likes
yes that is a very good point, thank you for making it.
So looking at the numbers again and accounting for the aura buff only being 4.72% and not applying to certain abilities (not limited to hero talents; things like consecration, divine arbiter, truth’s wake, mastery damage proc, and searing light will also not be buffed)
The few top mythic logs I looked at this week were still about about 16% damage from empyrean hammer in st against Sikran and 32% in aoe against broodtwister. Abilities aura buffed only accounted for roughly 55% of overall damage in st and only 44% in aoe. This puts the empyrean hammer change at a ~2.2% damage nerf in single target and a 7.5% nerf in aoe.
As for herald, it’s seeing about a 3% damage uplift from the aura buff.
3 Likes
I know exactly what it is. The problem is, do you? (not that I really care)
The compensation according to others who did the math is not enough.
2 Likes
blizzard has their own tools to measure these sorts of metrics.
also i would imagine that blizzard bases their data for this 5% compensation upon PTR tuning and the 11.1 tier set and raid bosses in undermine. The posters who have come into this thread have quoted numbers from nerubar palace logs with the 11.0 tier set, which is largely irrelevant to 11.1 tuning…
I would love if Blizz is secretly competent. Other cases have shown that 3rd party
math is superior to BLizz math.
4 Likes
Yes, because Blizzard has always been on point with their adjustments in the past. 
1 Like
Totally in history blizzard had implemented things that is either not OP nor underpowered in the past…
Oh wait, they tend to always over nerf and never release new class things balanced properly.
Which shows they have poor quality testing or release stuff too soon.
How is it mid? Its literally the fourth best spec for this tier in m+. Its not the best in raid but nothing to cry about honestly.
1 Like
For 15s, it’s 5th out the 8 actual specs people bring, and since there is like 3x as many Rets as any other DPS participating in M+, it kind of skews the numbers. Definitely in a better place than raid, but either way still doesn’t deserve to be nerfed.
It’s not in nerf territory is the entire point, things like Feral which is no worse than Ret are being buffed, and I think it was by 8%. Fury/Arms Warrior buffed, and Fury definitely needed ST buffs, but they didn’t even adjust it’s AOE, it’s going to be bonkers. Arms however was doing perfectly fine. Buffing these classes is fine also, but how can you nerf Ret when it’s right next to them in raid. Even if its for M+, buffs won’t fix the problems something like Feral has.
Do yourself a favor and ignore that dude, posts from a 55, probably doesn’t play the game.
2 Likes
it being a spec that people actually bring kinda means it isn’t really mid
1 Like
What are you basing this on?
Are you simply looking at nerubar palace numbers with the 11.0 tier sets? Because that data is entirely irrelevant when determining balancing for the 11.1 tier set performance.
Ret’s new 11.1 tier set is one of the best and it will be nerfed before the patch goes live.
yes, but again ret suffers from the same thing every other spec does. shammy. boomie and aug exists. so no reason to bring a ret
ret is alright, not something id call op. its popular and thats about it
2 Likes
clearly there’s a reason or they wouldn’t be brought
ease of access 
the spec is brain dead easy and popular. wel also have to define where its being brought to. cause push keys are again situated by shammy aug and boomies
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA no it’s not. Get outta this discussion buddy, you have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about. Just making stuff up.
I don’t even think that tier set will be an upgrade until MAX Mythic ilvl.
Have you done high keys? Like title range keys? If you aren’t THE DPS, you are going to have a tough time getting into groups. It really is irrelevant anyway, Ret wasn’t nerf worthy even in M+. The spec is mid and even if you only look at M+ it’s slightly above mid, not TOP DPS.
Oh look we agree on something. It’s definitely not nerf worthy.
2 Likes